RMF Summary: Week of March 26 - April 1, 2012

March 26

Sanskrit - U-Turn ... Shantanuji had published an excerpt from Dr. Prodosh Aich's interview, which had this bit about Sanskrit at Stage 5 of U-Turn, which is sadly true. I am just curious to know if Dr. Aich is familiar with Rajivji's U-Turn theory. This sounds like he probably does: [European "translators", Max Mueller and others] have transported a type of Sanskrit to Europe where I have doubts that it is Sanskrit at all. But the tragic part is that this Sanskrit has been imported  back to India. This is what we learn in India with the help of the Sanskrit dictionaries. Has anyone in the group read Dr. Aich's book Lies with Long Legs? Rajiv comment: Yes I have that book and read it. He limits his critique to largely colonial era people. I think today's re-colonizers are more dangerous - see my Uberoi Foundation talk:   March 26 An Indo-centric response to Euro-centric suggestions... Raj posts: As a National Geographic Book Panel member, I vote on their suggestions for books, and also provide suggestions. While their reach is admittedlyfocused to the... March 26 AAR's role in yoga digestion and the straw-man of Hindutva Manas shares: "The American Academy of Religion's last annual meeting had a panel on "Yoga and Christianity". I would like to bring to the attention of list member papers presented by two academics who participated in that panel. Andrea R. Jain, Indiana University-Purdue University, Indianapolis Yogaphobia and Yoga Ownership: The Shared Fundamentalism of Christian and Hindu Criticisms of the Global Popularization of Yoga Mark Singleton, St. John's College Christian Influences in the Development of Modern Yoga I have read some ofAndrea R's essays and there is a decided move to demonize and declare as extremist/fundamentalist any Hindu attempt to speak out against digestion of yoga into Christianity. As we have seen multiple times in this list, most recently being the case of the German U-turner, this is sought to be justified under the cloak of "universal good", etc. Singleton however presents a less insidious facet. If anyone his read his last book there is a very clear attempt to trace the roots of yogAsana into Christianity via European Gymnastics, YMCA, etc. He also very cleverly repackages yogAsana as what he calls "modern (postural) yoga". ....  It might be pertinent to mention here that Mihir Sharma, an Indian journalist at one point called BI as Hindutva...." subra asks: "..author is cited as Ms Alison Hinks. would a person with knowledge in this area validate the general accuracy of this depiction.... (source link: https://alisonhinksyoga.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/yogaflowchart.jpg?w=640&h=640) Rajiv comment: I have seen this diagram before. It is incomplete, i.e. it leaves major gaps in influence. The gaps seem to indicate that various modern gurus who are well known in the west started magically out of thin air. But when I personally interviewed BKS Iyengar and Yogi Amrit Desai (among the modern gurus), they emphasized that they belonged to a lineage going back to traditional yoga. The gap in such diagrams is partly out of ignorance and partly in serves a strategic purpose not to go back all the way. Such gaps then serve as "opportunity" for Singleton type scholarship to try and claim that the gaps should be connected to western sources. Thats the "aha" moment when digestion gets completed - a Western history is found and then it gets propagated fiercely. Note how aggressive the Wilber movement has become in just the past 5-10 years in such digestion. Mallika posts: "Mark Singletons scholarship is anthropological and extremely selective of the sources he chooses. He summarily dismisses claims of Indian Yoga Gurus that they are part and parcel of great Yoga asana traditions of India. However he generously quotes racist Indologists, including Katherine Mayo's Mother India (Gutter inspector report, in Gandhiji's words). His book 'Yoga Body' has a few pictures of Bukhs exercises, 1925, his gymnasium in the same year. It also has pictures of one Adonia Wallace doing some exercises, it is captioned "Best figure in the British Isles" (July, 1935) ". A cursory look at these pictures shows clear similarities between asanas and these 'gymnastic' stretching and exercises. But, using these similarities to make a correlation between these 'exercises' and T.Krishnamacharys asnas needs a huge leap of faith....  Ramesh adds: "Shiva Samhita is a wonderful work explaining Yoga and Asanas which I think is older than the Bukhs exercises. Chapter 3, verse 84 of shiva samhita says: " There are 84 asana postures of various modes. Out of them, four ought to be adopted, when I mention below: - 1) Siddhasana 2)Padmasana 3)Ugrasana 4)Svastikasana....." Raghu posts: "......Shri Krishnamacharya learnt his yoga Aasana practice with Shri Ram Mohana Brahmachari in Manasorovar. The Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram has published a few of the drawings that were given to Shri Krishnamacharya by his Guru that are the basis of his work. (The Yoga of a Yogi- ISBN 81-87847-24-7). These are part of the tradition followed by his teacher. These drawings are copies of older documents in the Gurus's possession. There are drawings with the use of ropes and staff as props in the practice of aasana. Shri Krishnamacharya in the course of his teaching would talk to us about his failures and successes and his understanding of how modern life is weakening the body. The teaching of aasana and praaanayaama by Iyengar, Pattabhi Joyce and Desikachar have developed on the basis of what they learnt from Shri Krishnamacharya...." Hemachandra comments: "Gheranda samhita 2.1 talks about 84 lakh asanas! (as related by Shiva) of which 84 asanas are said to be the best. Of these 84, 32 are said to be useful to mankind (Gheranda samhita 2.2). Of the 32, many of them (Gheranda samhita 2.3-6) are some of the popular ones today .."  Srinath posts: "I had a unique opportunity to meet the nonagenarian BKS Iyengar in person at his Bangalore residence some years back. It was an unforgettable experience in many ways -- BKS was addressing an informal gathering of his family members.... ......He was particularly interested in knowing how Iyengar yoga was being represented in the retail sphere i.e. Yoga studios and Gyms in USA, and commented that over 1/2 of all Western yoga schools derive from Iyengar yoga itself. There was feedback from the group about how yoga poses are being "digested" (although they didn't use the exact same expression) by the West and re-packaged as hybrid forms. BKS said he would like to patent or trademark many of these as a safeguard against future intrusions, but not sure about the best approach -- because he wanted them all to be traced back to their origins i.e. Patanjali. Incidentally BKS has consecrated the only known temple in honor of rishi Patanjali, at his home town in Bellur in 2005. Rajiv comment: I had a personal meeting with BKS Iyengar on his 89th birthday and the person with me made a video of it. I am trying to get a copy of that video. I told him about the uturns and it bothered him quite a lot. He went on the record saying that most westerners have not gone into the spiritual dimension of his teaching which he felt is inseparable from yoga, how they take that portion out and adopt only a subset. My sense is that after he is gone the digestion will accelerate full steam as even many of the loyal followers will vie with each other to claim to be the latest guru." March 26 Uberoi Foundation Lecture: Decolonizing India Studies Bluecupid asks: I watched the video and appreciated many of the points made. However how do you resolve the dichotomy of on the one hand objecting to Indonesian Muslims returning from Mecca completely Arabicized in name, culture, clothing and identity, and yet on the other hand faulting Western practicioners of Dharmic traditions for retaining their Western identity along with their practice? Rajiv comment: I have no problem with westerners remaining western in identity as pure culture - name, dress, etc. (The Muslims returning from Mecca are asked to change those...) My problem in the uturn is with westerners re-mapping dharma on to Jesus Christ, Greek Goddesses, Plato, modern "western" neuroscience, etc. It is a total hijacking of the history of ideas, in a way that distorts when dharma is forced to fit into the western paradigm. March 26 Using Western Devotees/Scholars to Mitigate Effect of Digestion Mr. Malhotra, What is your experience with interacting with various western devotees and scholars of Dharma (and Indian history perhaps) vis-a-vis the problems... March 26 kirtan digestion Maria posts: Recently a foreign 'spiritual travel' group came to Haridwar. Two of its members (first time in India) had learnt kirtan in the US from an American. The tour guide organised a kirtan session in an Indian family with the two Americans leading the kirtan. At the end, they expressed surprise that the Indians knew the tunes and words of the kirtan. They thought it was an American thing. March 29 no U turn, just exasperation Maria shares a western perspective: "..... I talked to an American friend of 30 years, who had lived in an ashram in India in his 20s, still comes every year and has gone deep into Hinduism, both by sadhana and study. 'I have decided not to bother anymore what happens here', he told me this time. 'If Hindus can't unite and put a strategy in place to stop conversion. I guess, they deserve what they get.' He sounded frustrated, but clearly still feels for India. As for me, too, it is often exasperating to be immediately challenged by certain acquaintances with Hindu names, when I say something positive about Hinduism, like: What do you say about the way Ram has killed Vali? Have you read Manu? Then you would not be in favour of Hinduism anymore. Just see, how Hindus treat cows. They claim she is their mother. You read the wrong books. Hindus were and are very violent. It was them who estroyed Buddhism. Did you read about that incident where a girl was not allowed to ride a cycle to school, because she is Dalit? .... Many westerners in India are likely to meet people who seem to hate Hinduism and even quote the Bible to show how educated they are. They are still under the spell of their forefathers having been brainwashed ..... Rajiv comment: These examples of "exasperation" are among the causes (or at least excuses) cited for making uturns."  March 30 Rajiv's Toronto visit - Media release March 21, 2012 issue: Headline News Dr Rajiv Malhotra tells audience at the Toronto launch of his book, "Being Different"Replace 'tolerate' with 'mutual respect'... (source: http://www.indocaribbeanworld.com/archives/2012/march_21_2012/images/1_rajiv-malhotra.jpg) pic: Trinidad & Tobago Consul General Dr Vidhya Gyan Tota-Maharaj having her copy of Being Different signed by its author.  (source: http://www.indocaribbeanworld.com/archives/2012/march_21_2012/images/12_book-signing.jpg)

RMF Summary: Week of January 30 - February 5, 2012

January 30

Impact of BD JCP shares: I happened to call on Swami Shantatmanand at the New Delhi (ND) RK Mission during my short visit to ND & he was kind enough to give me time on the 26th, in spite of a few hours notice. He asked me "What does Rajiv Malhotra want us to do?" when I posed your idea of interfaith dialogue to him, that Indian Dharm gurus are ill-prepared about their knowledge of the opponents. In fact, he said that in his interfaith dialogue-experience in India, the others are on the defensive, which appears to be the result of your work on, specially BD now... [i provide alternative links below for this well-known incident] January 30 Example of Western Universalism: Eating with hands an offense! Rajiv shares: An Indian couple has their child taken away by authorities in Norway, on the grounds that they eat with their hands and the boy sleeps with the parents. Both these are common characteristics of "embodied" cultures, but considered uncivilized according to Western Univeralism. In BD I explain the "disembodiment" of western culture, i.e. a form of self alienation they suffer even with the body. It expresses in various unconscious ways including way of eating, not comfortable breast feeding, heightened sense of "privacy" needs, and so forth. Such persons are psychologically disembodied, I argue. Such a culture is synthetic, not integral. The example above is illustrative of Western Universalism being not universal but particular to their region and history

Kaajal shares:
"...The Norway example does sound extreme...actually in my view in America at least, eating with hands is becoming quite popular. This is not to deny that the tendency toward universalizing its norms doesn't exist in the West, but shifts
in certain areas are afoot:

here's an interesting article from the New York Times:

Mind Your Manners: Eat With Your HandsAmy Dickerson for The New York Times
...
JULIE SAHNI vividly remembers the first time she had to eat with utensils. Ms. Sahni, a New York-based cookbook author and cooking teacher, grew up in India eating the traditional way, with her right hand. Then, in college, she won a
dance competition that would take her to Europe. How, she wondered, would she eat?
Recipe

The answer was a three-day immersion course in Western dining etiquette, which progressed from soup (don't let the spoon clatter on the bowl) to green beans (spear them without sending them into your neighbor's lap) and finally a
slippery hard-boiled egg. Ms. Sahni, 66, mastered the knife and fork, but she has never really liked them.

"Eating with the hands evokes great emotion," she said. "It kindles something very warm and gentle and caressing. Using a fork is unthinkable in traditional Indian eating. It is almost like a weapon."

Eating with the hands is common in many areas of the world, including parts of Asia and much of Africa and the Middle East. But until recently, you would have been hard-pressed to find many restaurants in the United States — especially
those with $20 or $30 entrees — where digging in manually was encouraged. Now, several high-profile chefs are asking diners to get their hands dirty, in the belief that it heightens the sensual connection to food and softens the formality of fine dining...."

Surya adds:
"You are supposed to wash your hands and feet before sitting down for a meal. You are also expected to shower or bathe before a meal. That is tradition.  Sure, there are people who do not maintain hygiene. So? Would you suggest driving is bad because many folks still drink and drive (and worse, kill
innocent people) ?

Buffet style lunch does not suit eating with hands. Traditional approach is a sit down meal with food brought to you and served. You are not supposed to walk around when having a meal. It is sad what they are doing in Indian weddings
these days.

There are many Indian dishes that are best eaten with hands. It is awkward doing so with a fork or spoon. Besides, when you are enjoying food with all your other senses, why deprive the sensual feel of touch?.."

January 30

Contextualizing Freedom of Speech and Expression

Kundan shares: Rushdie’s participation or non-participation thereafter at the Jaipur Literary Festival has caused a lot of media frenzy and much welcomed debate. It has brought to sharper focus the absoluteness of freedom of speech. Though most people interviewed on news channels like CNN-IBN or NDTV have upheld the absoluteness of the freedom of speech, there have been a few voices like those of writer-diplomat Mr. Pavan Varma and actor Rahul Bose who have questioned the notion of the absolute nature of this freedom. Mr. Varma argued against it saying that no freedom in any country, even in western countries, is unrestrained and therefore, it should not be so even in India. Though I am essentially in support of his contention, I wish he had shed some light on historical and social context of freedom of speech, which is now considered a corner stone of democracy.

The freedom of speech has attained a godly status in western countries mainly due to the tyrannical conditions that were unleashed by the Church in medieval times in Europe. Given the totalizing control that it held in matters of inquiry and artistic and literary expressions, it was through the sacrifice and struggle of many during renaissance that Europe could win the freedom to inquiry and creative expression. Given this history, it is understandable why “freedom of speech” has such a divinely ordained status in western countries.

Now India has not had any such history. Through the Varna-system, it was seen that totalizing power never got concentrated in the hands of a section of people in India..."

Cynthia responds:

"While being in broad agreement with the points made by Kundan Singh, I just wanted to point out that there have been instances in India's past where thinkers of two camps did come into violent disagreement, such as the incident of the opposition to the Jains in Tamil country where several hundred munis were killed; the opposition to the work and teaching of Basaveshwara; the opposition faced by Ramanujacharya and Madhwacharya from contemporary religious leaders; the opposition to Meerabai's devotion to Krishna, the famous incident where the shepherd Kanaka was not allowed into the SriKrishna temple in Udupi, whereupon the idol was said to have turned to face the rear, where Kanaka was singing out his devotion; and in more recent times early and mid-20th century) the severe conflagrations between the Iyers and Iyengars on the namam ( vertical and u-shaped for the Vaishnavait Iyengars, and horizontal in the case of the Shaivite Iyers) issue. "

Radhakrishnan's response to Cynthia: 

Cynthia's account that many Jain Munis were killed in Tamil Nadu is not correct. On the other hand saivite saints like Tirunavukkarasar was thrown into the ocean tied to a stone because he propagated Siva worship.  Further Ramanujacharya or Madhwacharya did not face any obstruction. There was also no dispute between Iyers and Iyengars on the sporting of 'namam" (the religious mark of vaishnavites on the forehead).  It was a dispute between two sects among the vaishnavites 'viz" the  "vadagalai" and "thengalai" in Kancheepuram.  All these things have gone into oblivion by the learned discourses of scholars belonging to both the sects lie Sri Velukkudi Krishnanswami, Venkatakrishnaswami, Sri Andavan Swami etc.

Nilesh shares: As for Meera Bai's case, please leave it as a domestic disagreements between a married couple. It is not a case of violent clash between two groups of people. As one or two sparrows do not make spring, a few example of questionable research over a history of thousands of  years do not make for intolerant psyche. It was a clear blue sky last thursday in an otherwise overcast sky of Vancouver last week. I was with my six year old grandson. As it was a major shift in climate after a week full of snow and rain, I exclaimed to him, Oh, great, the sky is clear today. He pointed out to a small stray white cloud on horizon and mischievously proved me wrong. Was I? Mature people see things in perspective. Just consider the number of heretics burned, killed, injured or stripped of their belongings in Europe and European colonies when considering so called intolerance in India...

Senthil adds: Excellent perspective by kundan singh..  I had this question earlier, but after Rajeev's BD, gave the perfect answer..  The absense of History Centrism, and the absense of Messenger, as explained in BD are the important reasons (apart from varna system explained by kundan singh) why we had freedom of expressed inherent in our civilization. another similar example we can quote is the Indian Intellegentsia's obsession with Pluralism and Multi-Culturalism..  We have it inherent, but they start lecturing (in opinion column) on the need to preserve it, as though we never had it.

     

January 30 
In Toronto: Inculturation clash within the Church
Gopala shares a link:

Rajiv comment: A very interesting article worth reading to understand the broader dynamics of inculturation. This internal fight has always been there within the Church, between those who see inculturation as blasphemous, and those who advocate it as a practical way to digest Hinduism into the history centrism of Christianity.

Readers of BD should note why this immense display of pro-Hindu symbolism and performance in the new liturgy DOES end up in dharma getting digested into Christianity BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCES THAT WOULD UNDERMINE THE CHURCH ARE NOT INCLUDED.

January 30

BEING DIFFERENT to be featured by prominent Religion Book Club Patheos is one of the top 2 or 3 sites specializing in religion....

February 1

BD review in New Global Indian magazine Arun: Page 102 of this large pdf document has the review. February 2 (5-day) Workshop on decolonised History of Philosophy & Science curr The relevance to Rajiv's ongoing (and earlier) efforts (promoting rehabilitation of history of Indian sciences) and vice-versa should be obvious. Sunthar ... February 3 Being Different - Book Review in Arsha Vidya Newsletter Avinash shares: Book Review of Being Different has appeared in Arsha Vidya Newsletter January 2012 issue Arsha Vidya Newsletter is the Official Newsletter of Swami Dayananda ... February 4 Prof. Rita Sherma's review of BEING DIFFERENT .. Being Different makes it astoundingly clear that the `global' civilization today is actually nothing of the kind. It is not an integrative fusion of beneficial ideas and perspectives from every civilization across the globe. It is, instead, a swallowing up of all human endeavor and culture for the nourishment of a madly materialistic, ultimately unsustainable, wildly destructive credo of monolithic cultural, political and religious imperialism. Rajiv Malhotra maintains that this is nowhere more clearly manifest than in the case of the centuries-long Western appropriation, re-mapping, and eradication of the sources of the native traditions, sciences, and spiritual practices of India. Being Different boldly deconstructs the ubiquitously lauded tenet of `religious tolerance,' so widely celebrated by diverse groups, and reminds us that none of us would want to be merely tolerated in any other situation and that mutual respect is what we should be aiming at. But it is made clear that this is a very difficult proposition because mutual respect in the realm of religion entails the affirmation of other faiths and their modes of worship as equally valid spiritual paths. This would mean the complete overturning, at the deepest level, of foundational dogmas of strict exclusivism that underlie historically orthodox Western theologies (an occurrence that liberal theologians would applaud).." Margaret adds: "That is a superb review. I appreciate the recognition of the existensially struggly traditions which I also include   my own "Haitian Vodou" that has been totally misrepresented and oppressed under the cloak of colonialism, slavery, and Western imperialism. Most likely within this group itself, the word Vodou evokes the western feelings. However, I am even more passionate about my traditional culture as Raj is is of what is going on with Indian culture. My book "Healing in the Homeland - Haitian Vodou tradition " is upcoming and I hope to receive the understanding and support of Raj Group .." February 4 (continuing discussion from few weeks prior) Itihasa versus history-centrism Surya adds: In chapter 2 of BD, Itihasa's important role as a stepping stone is one' spiritual journey is emphasized. BD says: Begin Quote: "Truth and not mere history is the concern of itihasa. ... Truth is not dependent on history; rather, history is a manifestation of the truth. The Dharmic relationship between history and myth is thus not at all comparable to the Western relation between truth and fiction." "... Hindus recognize that history can be valuable to beginners on their spiritual journey ...dharma practitioner who studies itihasa explicitly aspires to bring about a change within, emphasizing the virtues illustrated in the narratives and not the historical facts." End Quote: Take away point is this: Hindus are invariably exposed to great deal of itihasa during their life.  Whether it is the story of Rama, Krishna, Satya Harischandra, or Prahlada, no Hindu suffers irrecoverably from questions of what time these stories have happened in history or whether there are incredulous parts to these stories in relation to our experiences in life, or whether archaeological evidence can establish historicity of these itihasa.  At the same time, as Hindus glean the essence of the itihasa, viewing itihasa as history allows for sraddha in their spiritual pursuit. They do not suffer from a debilitating need to establish the historicity of itihasa. This is hard to understand for followers of Abrahamic religions where history-centrism is the core essential.  Why? Because they have specially chosen prophets who have special access to God's message that other mortal humans cannot. God's message to humanity passed through prophets is tied inseparably to the historical truth of these prophets claiming special access.   Establishing credibility for prophets is of supreme importance.  History is the sole means of establishing this credibility. In Dharmic religions, no individual prophet has such exclusive access. What Buddha achieved, anyone can aspire to achieve. What Adi Shankaracharya achieved, anyone can aspire to achieve. .." Arjunshakti adds: In reference to biblical history i would recommend everyone to see this series 'Bible's Buried Secrets' by the BBC that caused a bit of a storm last year when latest archaeological and scientific  evidence told a very different story to the narrative appoved by the church.. Bible's Buried Secrets (BBC) Ep.1 hosted by biblical scholar Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou Nalini adds: "it is with interest that i listened to you in the Department of Psychology (Univ. of Delhi) and began to assimilate your writing.... As a researcher in the late seventies and early eighties, I had the good fortune to observe closely some events in a country that underwent a cataclysmic revolution ... I lived among the people exposed to the barbarity of war and the barbarity of faith as was being thrust upon them - the Khurds of Iran and Iraq. It was then that from a vantage point of a liberal and thinking Human (that i do not describe as either Hindu or Christian, but as just Human), the need to study and delve into the teachings of the four major faiths  began to disturb me. I managed to read a large part of the Koran and the Sharia and the Hadith, the narratives of betrayal of Hussein. The teachings of Christ and the Book of genesis. The beliefs of the jews and the teachings of GuruNanak... It began to dawn upon me that religion in any garb Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Sikh and organized form of prescribed faith based on revelation and mediated by priests and prophets did not promote the higher levels of principled Moral reasoning based on Universal principles of human justice and equality. The Study was an empirical one based on analysing and reasoning with Cognitive dilemmas presented in a narrative format and adapted for use in Indian Contexts. Religiosity too was defined and measured. It was found that doctrinal teachings of the revealed faiths did promote the development of Obedience to Authority stage of moral reasoning, but it impeded the development of the higher cognitive schemas based on the Categorical Imperative and universal principles of Justice. Thus in 1984 I came to the conclusion that faiths that did not rely on a prescribed book or Dogmas were better in allowing their followers to develop their own understanding of what is right and Just. i would still not say that Hindus are a uniform faith, as many/ majority of the hindus follow the meaning less prescriptions of rituals and varying dogmas of the Brahmanical faith. Few are aware of the Higher truths that are so complex that they can be communicated only through a series of Dilemmas that confronted the characters of the Epics, Ramayana and Mahabharata. .... "   Vish adds: "..With all due respect I am attempting to breathe some life into these type of sentence constructs, which follow the same "Rejection" syndrome because "I don't know much about it". This is one form of India breaking, too. There is one aspect of India that Hindus must 'extraordinarily' understand; given all the ravages of barbarism that a vastly refined civilization went through, they have still managed to retain through thousands of years, a mind-boggling symbolism. Yes, Brahmins can be accused of many things including Dogma, but at the end of the day, the Vedas (one of the true wonders of our world) was saved because of their practicing 'Ganapataas'...complex weaving of patterns as carriers for  code. Once you reflect on this, you are left baffled at the ingenious methods of our forefathers, due to whose survival you and I are alive to talk about it. No, Ladies and Gentleman, coding was not just found out in the modern world wars.... for destruction! Our forefathers found it to pass on messages in peace on "that which supports" humanity! Iam appealing for a study of how a Temple is constructed, what is the meaning of the offering of a "Poorna Kumbha", what does it mean to see a "Shilpa" of Vishnu on a Garuda, why is a bird named "Garuda"?; is there any truth of an Einstein proportion in the Hindi word 'Makar' for a crocodile? How did the sculptor in Halebeedu (Karnataka) construct six hundred heads of the most alluring hairstyles that even "Allure" and "Vogue" do not know about?..." Shaas responds: "....I don't think it is justified to name Hinduism on the same line with other religions and "organized forms" of faith. I wonder from where you have gained the impression that Hindus have an "organized form of prescribed faith". I would say that this is exactly the point that makes Hinduism so much different from other religions. Rajiv comment: There are organized forms of Hinduism as well. That is why I prefer the term dharma, which is what you describe below quite correctly. Shaas continues: Firstly, Hinduism is based on the Vedas which significantly means "knowledge" and in its foundation of the Vedas there are also very practical disciplines that make the direct realization of Vedic themes possible. Such a structure is entirely foreign to the other religions mentioned and apparently studied by you...." Rajiv comment: Even history centrism is a form of knowledge, i.e. knowledge of unique historical events. In case of dharma the knowledge is what BD explains as embodied knowing. Hence calling it knowledge is insufficient, as that implies that other traditions lack knowledge. The point to make (as in chapter 2) is that history centrism is not valid pramana and certainly cannot trump adhyatma vidya..."

This post marks the end of the summary for the first year of the forum that was started in February 2011!

Video: Rajiv Malhotra holds Multiple Townhouse Style Discussions in Canada

Rajiv Malhotra notes: Videos of multiple townhouse style discussions with diverse audiences in Canada have been edited into this 2 hour video. The series of events featured here were mainly orgnized by the Indo-Caribbean community, which is very strong in its social and political participation in North America. (The videos from these events have not been previously disseminated to my email list.)
It is interesting to see a variety of participant engage the issues with such intensity. I hope you will find it informative and thought provoking.

Toronto Public Discussions on Dharma Civilization, May 26 - 29, 2012