RMF Summary: Week of December 10 - 16, 2012

December 11
Have you interacted with Indian Christian Theologians in India
Dear Mr. Malhotra: I wonder if you have engaged Indian Christian theologians either in India or outside the same way you have interacted with Caucasian Christian theologians.

Can you elaborate on your interactions with them?

Rajiv's response:

"Please see my debate with the Indian Christian pastor held at Princeton University:

Make sure you see all the videos to get a good impression of what happened, and why these folks ran away. The attendees felt that their canned positions (taught by their seminaries) did not hold, up which frustrated them.  "

(This is yet another occasion where the opposition runs away without completing the debate with Rajiv).

Arun adds:

"As a follow-up, please read this essay in the Infinity Foundation website,It is about Svadhyaya, by Makarand Paranjpe. These kinds of efforts, like Svadhyaya, Ekal Vidyalaya movement, that are the
answer to the gentleman in the "unfortunate incident" piece of the video."

December 12 (continuing thread from December 4)

Hinduism: The ultimate anti-fragile

The above is an interesting and innovative use of BD's thesis. Clearly, the...

Subra responds:

"Vibha:
1. thanks for taking the time to respond. The Hindu society offered mutual respect, but the reception from the other side ranged from tolerating to outright rejection. hence temporary.

2. Since u mentioned Jinnah, here's a related hypothesis. Take Pakistan. There is a case to be made that a main reason Pakistan has not totally collapsed despite the incredible pressures they are subject to is because of the residual 'anti-fragile DNA' of Dharmic integral unity they retain, not their new-found Islamic history-centrism or western secularism. Every major split, be it in Baluchistan or East Pakistan is a crack in their fragile synthetic unity forcibly superimposed on original IU. Even today, we can see the sporadic attempts there to use the Bandhu principle to regrow what was lost, even if unconsciously (via Hindu dance, music, etc). If this hypothesis is true, the violent extermination of the Dharmic culture in East & west pakistan will result in a loss of this precious DNA and considerably weaken the bonds in their society."

December 14 (New Thread)

self-confidence
Maria posts:

"Recently I met an American pastor (Presbyterian) who mentioned an interesting incident:
some church in US, (I believe it was Baptist) had declared that Jews dont have the grace of God because they dont believe in Jesus. His own Church called for a meeting and there they made a declaration that Jews have direct access to God and dont need to go via Jesus. It came in the local newspaper. In his town there are a few Jewish families. He was called by the most prominent of the Jews, usually an amiable fellow. When he reached his shop, the pastor got blasted: Who do you think you people are? You have no business to make a declaration like this. We know we have direct access to God, we dont need your certificate. The pastor told me that actually he thought the Jews would be pleased nothing of this sort.

It made me think about the Hindu approach. I feel it has to be on many levels. The academic one is no doubt very important, and also is a street response, when one meets Christians or priests in India. Not everyone is an intellectual and some solid self-confidence regarding Hinduism may put proselytizers in place.  In my own way, whenever I meet Christians, for example auto/ taxi driver, I ask them not to believe when Christians tell him that Hinduism is bad. And I surprise them by telling, that I consider it the best of all..."   

December 14

Hindi Edition of Being Different  

Devendra shares an update on another upcoming milestone:

"As some of you may know,Hindi version of Shri Rajiv Malhotra's pioneer book,'Being Different' will be published in a few months. The English version was a best seller,and has churned thought process of readers who delved into this treatise that contains many original and thought-provoking ideas,which came after a long research and 'manthan' process of almost two decades.

Here is the help I am requesting from you (actually,you will be helping your own culture and tradition with your constructive help):

1. What will be the most fitting title in Hindi for 'Being Different' - An Indian Challenge to Western Universalism".
2. What can you do to make the Hindi version of Being Different one of the best Hindi books ever published. Please indicate -
    a. The number of copies you will buy.
    b. Endorsements for the book from prominent people you can obtain (by the end of January, 2013)
    c. Publicity launch you can organize in your town - if you live in Bharat. Later on, we will also need people to organize lecture tours of Shri Malhotra in USA and Canada to promote and sell the   Hindi version. Shri Malhotra speaks very well in Hindi.

Please also start writing and informing others about this ground-breaking book being published in Hindi. Your help will go a long way in popularising and establishing the ideas of this modern-day Vivekananda to help save our civilization. This book offers the best defence of our culture,and if we can expose Bhartiya population to the ideas contain in the book,the pseudo-secularism and stockholm syndrome will be replaced with genuine pride and trust in our own civilization."

[RMF Moderator's Note: Ideas/leads on "Being Different" Hindi Version, like the enthusiastic response below, should in future be sent directly to Devendra Singh ji at devendra60@... .]  

There were many responses with various titles suggested. Please visit the thread, and post your own preference there! It is a celebration.

December 15 (New Post)

Rajiv's new blog on FirstPost.
Kajal posts:

Please read Rajiv's blog on FirstPost (an Indian blog). This is the 3rd blog on FirstPost. This one reiterates Rajiv's demands  for rhetorical changes in inter-faith dialogue. Ironically, Condoleezza Rice seems to have picked up the "mutual respect" terminology, though we are unsure she appreciate all the implications. For words can precede behavior and nothing less than respect (as opposed to tolerance) should suffice for Hindus participating in inter-faith meetings.

Surya responds:
" Such egalitarian thinking of Swami Vivekananda is often wasted on Christian apologists (for example, Ravi Zacharias) who essentially argue that falsehood cannot claim for mutual respect along with truth.  They argue as follows:

Claim 1: All religions have truth claims which are exclusive.  Even ultra-inclusive Bahai faith excludes the exclusivists.

Argument: For any religion to have a claim of distinctness, it needs to have truth claims in it that is incompatible with the other religion that it is compared to.  If it did not, it would merely be a subset.

Claim 2: Since religions have truth claims which make them mutually incompatible, therefore at most one of them can be true. In fact, it is even logically possible that all of them are false.

Argument: law of excluded-middle

Claim 3:  Only Christianity is the true religion.

Argument: Historical evidence shows that Jesus resurrected after crucifixion.  This is proof for his divinity.  Christianity is the only religion that can offer proof for its truth claims.  Therefore, those claims are true.  Therefore, Christianity is a true religion.

From claims 2 and 3, all other religions are false.  One cannot be required to accept false claims. Thus, Christian position of exclusivism is justified with evidence.  Why should they show respect for claims that oppose the truth?

Unless comments of Swami Vivekananda are backed up with an argument that invalidates the argument above, the idea of mutual respect will have no reception on the other side.."

Maria adds:

"Surya, You are right that egalitarian thinking is wasted on Christian fundamentalists, who stick to the fundamentals, but less and less people are enamoured by these fundamentals, and thats where Hindus can have influence. The Time article quotes some fundamentalists, but also asks Is Bell's Christianity "less judgmental, more fluid, open to questioning
the most ancient of assumptions” on an inexorable rise? And ends on a positive note with a quote of Bell: something new is in the air.
... And nowadays, where physics has gone so far as to imply that history has no standing in absolute truth, what prevents Hindus/ Indian tradition to claim that they are the only ones who do not depend on historical figures but on enquiry,
analysis and intuitive insight by persons who have purified their means of perception and who show how others can come to the same experience and therefore have the best approach/ chance to discover what is really true about us and the universe.."

December 16 (New Thread)

Pt Ravi Shankar Interview
tvikhanas posts:

"... The American interviewer asks when he
thinks we will see genuine "world music". Pt Ravi Shankar responds by saying he will not comprise the purity of his tradition and instead of one world music would like to see rich variety.

Only a competent and confident person can respond this way. Lesser persons would hide behind vague generalities to avoid exposing their ignorance or confronting the issues..."
  

Rajiv's response:
"An important point is made above. I was planning to write a
eulogy of Pt. Ravi Shankar emphasizing that he was the quintessential non-digestible Indian. Due to my own backlog of work,I could not do so. ... My concern (and prediction) is that after his death we will see sitar digested into a subset of western string instruments. What will also be lost will be raga, as that form will get reduced to normative/orderly music in the Western sense. I allude to raga differences in the Order and Chaos chapter. Because Ravi Shankar embodied the improvisation principle of raga, he was not digestible into western music. After him, I doubt there is another personality with this clarity and courage. Ravi Shankar did not care that Beatles were far more famous and rich in money than he; he insisted that they comply as his students with all the traditions of Indian music - no drugs, no smoking, remove shoes, no alcohol, touch guru's feet before the class, sarasvati vandana, etc.  "

RMF Summary: Week of December 4 - 10, 2012

December 4 (continuing discussion from November 24)
Life of Pi - lessons for Hindus
Equal-equal Hindus might feel encouraged by the attention paid to that idea in Ang Lee's visually magnificent movie, "The Life Of Pi". A sampling of Christian...

Harsh argues:
"I agree with Mr. Ganesh. Why did PI convert to Christianity? it had nothing to do with the story or plot. Even my "secular" friends felt that PI converting to Christianity made no sense whatsoever. Infact if they could have explained the dharma philosophy nicely in the circumstances shown but it is seen from a Christian POV."

Carpentier responds:
"Actually he does not convert. As a child he wanted to be baptised but it was only a desire and then he went through other religious experiences like Ramakrishna Paramahansa. In the end he is shown having married the Bharata Natyam dancer he had loved as a teenager and having given his children Hindu names. His worldview is distinctly Indic, not "semitic" throughout the movie though it is inclusive, as all truly sadhakas are, in all times and places..." 

December 6 (continuing discussion from December 4)\
Hinduism: The ultimate anti-fragile
The above is an interesting and innovative use of BD's thesis. Clearly, the...

Vibhaa responds:
"Blog author posits that in Stage 2 (1857-1947), Hindu society joined hands with Muslim society. This position is arguable as Muslim leadership in India seems to have collaborated with the Christian West against the nativist Dharma. Syed Ahmed Khan, MA Jinnah are some major examples that apparently applied people of the book solidarity against "Non-Believers""

December 6 (continuing discussion from November 22)
Angana Chatterji hosted at Harvard by Michael Witzel
In Breaking India, Rajiv & Aravindan write about some US academics who produce literature with questionable funding that could aid in the disintegration of...

Bhattacharya notes:
"Only one week from the day this thread regarding Angana Chatterji began, a relevant development has taken place. According to recent news reports [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/specials/gujarat-assembly-elections/US-\
lawmakers-urge-Hillary-Clinton-to-continue-denying-visa-to-Narendra-Modi/article\
show/17473016.cms], in a letter addressed to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton dated 29 November 2012, twenty-five U.S. lawmakers, including Congressmen Joe Pitts, Dan Burton, Trent Franks, and James Moran (all discussed in message #3835 in this thread) as well as others, have recommended that Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi be denied a visa. In their letter, the lawmakers specifically mention Modi's alleged involvement in the 2002 Gujarat
riots. It is notable that 11 of the 13 U.S. Congressmen named as signatories to the letter in the news article referenced above are members of the Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission [http://tlhrc.house.gov/members.asp], the very same
Congressional committee before which Angana Chatterji testified in March of 2012 [http://tlhrc.house.gov/hearing_notice.asp?id=1227 , click on Chatterji's name
and Transcript/Webcast in left margin for documents/testimony], as discussed in message #3835 in this thread. Another signatory to the November 2012 letter,
Congressman Frank Wolf, is co-Chairman of this committee. (A complete list of the twenty-five signatories and the full text of the letter were not found on the web)...." 

December 6 (New Thread)
AAR session on Being Different

Rohit posts:

"Comments of Sri Koenraad Elst on the AAR session on Being Different: The debate about Rajiv Malhotra's book Being Different was very instructive. At the end, Malhotra ably put his critics in their place, but first they had their say. I was appalled by the bad manners of Brian Pennington against the invited responder, Rajiv Malhotra: he wondered aloud, after a long diatribe which I guess was his privilege, why the AAR and organizer Francis Clooney s.j. had cared to pay any attention to Malhotra at all, let alone invite him. It was typical for these academics: they fight by exclusion, they shamelessly  exploit the fact that they are in and Rajiv is out, eventhough his book will prove more influential (and far more factual) than anything they will ever produce, or than the wrongly famous Orientalism by Edward Said..."

Rajeev responds:

"Rajiv comment: I very much appreciated Koenraad's participation from the audience. He pointed out that those like Pennigton who accused me of "essentializing" Hinduism were themselves essentializing the notion of "minorities". The panel failed to offer any response.

I agree that Edelman (like Rambachan) completely lacked creativity, originality or any imagination to look beyond the box of "standard works" on Hinduism by one "side" or another.

Regarding history-centrism: someone from the audience asked Edelman how the historicity of Krishna according to Vaishnavs resembled and how it differed from that of Jesus. He ought to have taken this opportunity to give some thoughtful remarks. But he look dumbfounded and muttered something like "I have not thought about this." Amazing that the man who was the Vaishnav expert on the panel had never bothered to think of this rather obvious question.

In my response to Edelman, I pointed out that his credentials as Vaishnav scholar (which he went on emphasizing) were based on his years of study at the feet of his guru Dr. Satya Narayan Das, who is arguably today's foremost prominent exponent of Sri Jiva Goswami's Achinta-bheda-abheda. (I happen to know this fact about Edelman's learning of Vaishnavism from Dr. Das.) Then I pointed out much to his embarrassment that: Dr. Das is a dear friend and supporter of my work; that he had read the entire manuscript of BD a year it got published and made numerous comments and suggested changes, that i had used his interpretation of Vedanta in Appendix A and not relied entirely upon Shankara; and that he had written a most wonderful endorsement of this book. This completely slid the rug from under the feet of this scholar.

I have finished reading Rambachan's PhD dissertation written in 1984 where his ideas come out clearly against Swami Vivekananda and others he thinks of as the culprit starting what he calls "Neo-Hinduism". I have also finished reading very thoroughly the complete writings of Hacker (a Christian missionary) on this matter along with related works by others. So I will first write a full purva paksha of this school of anti-Vivekananda...

Of course Penington's crass and very unscholarly conduct is most reprehensible and deserves to be address as such. There was no scholarly content in his paper that was relevant to BD - mostly generic attacks on the type of scholarship he presumes Hindus to produce. I doubt he read BD more than skimming through it and looking for things quickly to get his bearings.

Below is Dr. Das' endorsement of BD:

Reviewer: Dr. Satya Narayan Das, Founder of Jiva Institute of Vedic Studies, Vrindavan

Many Indian spiritual leaders, lacking a profound knowledge of their own culture, and feeling inferior to the West, try to respond to the Western challenge by showing how Indian and western religions are the same. They chant "sarva-dharma-sama-bhava" (all religions are equal) out of context, causing much confusion. In the midst of this morass arises the ”lotus of Rajiv” (the word rajiv means a lotus in Sanskrit) in the form of his book, Being Different. Rajiv Malhotra's work is a kind of yajna that reverses the gaze upon the West through the lens of Indian knowledge systems. This process is traditionally called purva paksha, and in Rajiv’s work it is given a new mission and a new importance.... 

... The dharmic traditions have been a target for digestion into the belly of Western culture. Being Different challenges the legitimacy of such attempts with profound logic and examples. Its analysis of Abrahamic religions shows how they are history-centric. This fixation drives them into claims of exclusiveness and gives them anxiety over cultural differences which they seek to resolve through appropriation, assimilation, conversion - all forms of digestion that obliterate whatever seems challenging.... 

... Being Different breaks new ground in that direction. The result is a highly original and sincere attempt to compare the basic paradigms of Indian and Western thought. This book will open the eyes of any fair-minded reader regardless of worldview. " 

Shashi adds:

"In his book Decolonizing the Hindu Mind, Elst strenuously points out that there is a dearth for good material on Hinduism that takes a position. In that context Elst was dealing with the issues in political arena. Better yet, this precisely what Rajiv has been doing in the academic arena (and other non-political forums), which as Rajiv has pointed out in past, will have the greatest impact.

In http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2012/12/impressions-from-aar-conference.html, Elst says “It was typical for these academics: they fight by exclusion, they shamelessly  exploit the fact that they are in and Rajiv is out …”.

This is an old trick: they only indulge in monologs. If they had ever entered into a constructive Indian style purva and uttar paksha based debate with Indian pundits, among other things – AIT would never be born and we would not have to clean their mess..."

December 7 (New Thread)

Appropriating Music -- Takadimi.net?
I ran into this website in course of my research on rhythms -- http://www.takadimi

.net I suspect that this is a u-turn/appropriation classic -- Read the FAQ...

December 7 (New Thread)
A martyr in making in south india
Ram posts: 
Christian catholic church is slowly initiating attempts to digest the tamilnadu , kerala functions of pongal (makar sankaranti) by attaching it with the supposed martyrdom of Devasahayam pillai. An article on the whole myth of Devayasahayam pillai being killed for his religion

Shanti notes:
"Thank God we Hindus follow the Lunar calendar! Otherwise the Church would have long ago found a 'Christian reason' for each of our other festivals too.  The Church is known to have done this across Europe to all pagan festivals:

... In fact there is a widely held theory that the celebration of Christmas on 25th December is not the actual birthdate of Jesus but selected by the Church to coincide with the pagan winter festival."

December 7 (New Thread)
Ravi posts:
Prof. Ashok Aklujkar (Dept of Asian Studies, Univ of British Columbia

‘Languages give people a sense of identity’ Ashok N Aklujkar is Professor Emeritus, Department of Asian Studies, at the University of British Columbia. He received his PhD degree in Sanskrit and Indian Studies from Harvard University and was the founder of the Canadian Association of Sanskrit and Related Studies. He has published groundbreaking research on the Sanskrit Linguistic Tradition and Poetics. Why is Sanskrit a dying language in India? Incorrect educational policies are primarily to be blamed because they are aimed at taking Sanskrit out of the mainstream. We should create more space for languages in general — regional as well as languages of historical importance such as Sanskrit, Pali and Prakrit. Even Hindi is slowly being rooted out. This is because we emphasise on English way too much. Why do you think Sanskrit, in particular, should be focussed upon? For over 1,000-1,200 years, all Indian languages have drawn their sustenance from Sanskrit. Our vocabulary is based on Sanskrit. It cemented India when it was politically divided. Each individual needs a sense of identity, which is built through philosophy, religious teachings, ethics, and all of this is rooted in Sanskrit. This is why we need to promote it. What problems do you foresee if we do not focus on languages? If we do not pay enough attention to languages and humanities in general, our social problems are going to increase. Each language has a view of the world embedded in it and suggests different ways of solving social and scientific problems. So if we give English precedence, we are impoverishing the world of other points of view... What, according to you, is the future of the humanities stream? The policymakers as well as the public at large need to be educated. The people of India are restless because they are realising that their dharmic roots are being taken away and are being destroyed in the name of globalisation and westernisation. This will lead to a loss of truly creative people. ..." Rajiv responds: "I am glad to see the media give Ashok his due. In 2002 (exactly a decade ago) Infinity Foundation gave a grant to Harvard University for the purpose of appointing Ashok Aklujkar as full-time visiting professor. He taught courses there and did research. In the prior year, Infinity Foundation's visiting professor for Hinduism Studies at Harvard University had been Arvind Sharma. Both these are mentioned at our web site..."

 

This thread provides many links and information that brings us up to date with the latest debate. We plan to summarize this in a separate post.

December 7 (New Thread)
Critics Respond to Hindu Intellectual's Attempt at Being Different


Note: This error-filled article discussed in the next thread has been exposed for its lack of research by Sandeep Balakrishna here.
December 8 (New Thread)
The Case for Indian Islam by Neil Padukone
films2020 posts:
" ... Pragati is the publication of Takshashila Institution, a think-tank based in New..."
Arun responds:
"The Tamizh Alvars predate the arrival of Islam"

Manish notes:
"First thing first, I have been following Pragati for at least 3 years; it aspires to be nationalist but never rises beyond Nehruvian miasma. The quote below bears this out. This is the bane of all ''strategic'' thinking in India.

// The intermingling of Islam and Hinduism in the 12th century produced a profound evolution in Hinduism that remains salient today. //

-- there was no intermingling; Hinduism was mercilessly mauled. To term the rape of Hindustan as ''intermingling'' is the usual Nehruvian teachnique of lying while hiding behind pious platitudes, so as to avoind facing up to ugly realities. "

 December 8 (New Thread)
A plea for some help
Vish posts:
I wonder if some forum member, with accesses, could help me find a contact for Prof. (Mrs.) Bhaswati Sinha, who was (maybe still?) with the Department of Religious Studies in Punjabi University, Patiala.

I am coming here after doing my due, and in not getting anywhere.

Prof. Sinha, after a sustained labor of two decades published a very important treatise on Udayana-Acharya's work on the "Hindu Rational Enquiry into the Existence of God". It is a remarkable thesis in that Udayan talks of "Adrsta" (a kind of genetic notion still prevalent in a Hindu's way of life, but which everyone wants to summarily dismiss as non-scientific attaching tags such as 'chance', 'fate', 'bad luck' etc). Udayana-acharya  uses some powerful arguments to develop the notion of God as the cause for such an effect.

Prof. Sinha's elaborate work lays a powerful foundation to notions of "Poorva-Paksha" arguing against many of the notions advanced by Mimamsakas, Buddhists, Chaarvakas and the like (many thanks to BD for providing a resurrection of this long forgotten concept of the Dharmic way of  acquiring knowledge). She also provides a  terrific reference and examples on the powerful logic that was prevalent in India during those ancient ages.

Prof. Sinha did her MA from Calcutta University, and obtained her Ph.D. from Madras under Dr. TMP Mahadevan. In 1976 she was recommended by Mahadevan to join the Punjabi University to forge a research team there, and we believe that in some shape or form she still lends her services to them."

The thread below will be covered in depth in Part-2 of our series on this topic. Part-1 can be found in the June 2012 archive.
December 8 (New Thread)
Why the book American Veda is not called American Hinduism
Dear Friends Phil Goldberg is the author of the recently published American Veda. He explains why the word Hindu is not there. Book reviews can be read from...

December 9

Course on Indian Culture via MOOC
Alekshendra posts:
"Dear Dr. Malhotra,

This is my attempt to try to reach you. I have seen almost all of your lectures available on YouTube and the point made by you about the digestion of Indian Culture/History/Identity by the west.

In this regard, I would like to bring to your attention a new trending way of providing education online.
We have something called MOOCs (massively open online course) ( these links can give a better Idea:
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixE1YAlHnVU
2. http://www.ted.com/talks/daphne_koller_what_we_re_learning_from_online_education.html )

I was a part of one such MOOC offered by Prof. Keith Devlin of Stanford University and the strength of the class was whooping 61 thousand.

I was wondering over the possibility of creation of an Online Course offered on Coursera which focuses on Indian Culture, its content, it's distinctiveness from the west
( https://www.coursera.org/category/humanities) then the knowledge and message can be spread on a much larger scale. "

Rajiv responds:
"I would be delighted. But some others must do all the logistics, funding, tech work, marketing, etc. I can supply the content itself. Many similar ideas have come and gone, because when the workload gets tough our folks' enthusiasm fizzles out. The core team has to be FULL TIME as I am. This means they need funding. It cannot be pursued as a hobby as and when one feels like. There has to be professional accountability just like in one's job"


We end this summary with a very thought-provoking post by Rajiv Malhotra. This post has some profound messages worth reading more than once. We cannot say later that we weren't warned.
December 10

Hindu Dharma is more than just a matter of naming  
"1) Many of our people seem confused and think that being Hindu is merely a matter of calling oneself by that name. This approach might be called "definition by naming". So long as someone uses the right name, its ok. I find this shallow and troubling. I know many who call themselves Hindus, but who are in one or more of the following categories of counterproductive persons:

    Using Hindu community to boost their own political status or raise self importance to get some appointment, etc. Obsessed with occupying some position of importance for which they are utterly unqualified, thereby denying someone better qualified the chance to serve us better.
    Happy to get digested; promoting digestion out of naivete/stupidity; seeing this as a sign of glory: "We have arrived on the world stage".
    Confused with ideas of sameness, as substitute for having to study hard to understand what dharma is.

2) So if naming cannot be the criteria for defining who is Hindu, another option many use is history centrism. Hinduism defined as a specific history in a specific geography. I reject this as well. It limits Hinduism's claim of universalism by defining it this history centric way. For one thing, it excludes many segments and movements which have separate histories (e.g. Swaminarayanan) and/or do not consider any unique history to be the basis at all (e.g. Kashmir Shaivism, Tantra, Yoga). This approach has been used for political expediency - turning Hinduism into a Semitic religion of sorts. It becomes a claim that downgrades us...

3) Definition by distinct principles and practices. This the approach BD follows. Here, I found it important to combine both positive and negative principles. Examples of positive principles are karma-reincarnation and non-translatables that are specific and shared by the diversity of dharma approaches. Negative principles are what we reject. These negative principles are is critical to formulate carefully so as to have non-digestible differences. Examples of negative principles: I reject the claim that God's manifestation on earth has been limited via one son and no other way...

4) So the combination of positive-negative principles define us.

    The positive ones root and ground us, in a manner that all (or almost all) dharma groups can accept; hence we get a unified platform.
    The negative ones prevent us from getting digested into some other religion that is lurking around sending its "good cops" to entice and us and fool us. ..

5) The cunning tiger would like to separate the quills of the porcupine from the meat, reject the former and digest the latter. If the porcupine is foolish and accept the tiger's offer and drops his quills, he will surely get eaten and digested. The smart porcupine must NEVER SEPARATE THE QUILLS FROM THE REST OF HIS BODY. The positive-negative principles come as one package, never to get separated.

6) Swami Vivekananda's greatness is because he followed the above method #3. I have been reading through his collected works now for a second time lately, because I realized that the AAR panelists' attack on BD was based on those scholars' lifelong attacks  of Swami Vivekananda. The central problem these scholars face is any claim of unity of Hinduism. They know how to deal with #1 and #2 approaches. #1 is simply trivial and easy to appease such fools by simply using the Hindu name. #2 has been attacked as Hindutva and hence they have lots of weaponry and soldiers trained to start firing. But #3 is very tough for them. This is why they have worked since 1950 to undermine Swami Vivekananda as a champion of unity using #3 approach. Digestion is one of their most aggressive and successful methods because Hindus get fooled into thinking the tiger is paying them a compliment.

7) I have a list of top tier scholars who have made their careers attacking Swami Vivekananda and now I am writing a response to their attacks on BD. Their attacks on BD use the same approach as their attacks on Swami Vivekananda. Basically, anything philosophical (not political) that unifies dharma, is seen as dangerous. Why? Because such a foundation for unity is very robust as a foundation for nation-building. To destroy India they must destroy every viable method of its unity. Modern economic growth is insufficient to hold a massive diverse country together when it faces crises and catastrophes. Only a shared set of dharmic principles can hold it together. Hence, this academic cabal has targeted Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Gandhi, B.G. Tilak, Radhakrishnan, etc. - calling them "Neo-Hindus" to imply that they lack authenticity...

8) I welcome sincere and COMPETENT help in this latest project of mine.I am working on it non stop 7 days/wk amidst some personal challenges..."

RMF Summary: Week of November 28 - December 4, 2012

November 29 (continuing discussion from November 20)
The Fully Digested Deracinated Chairman of the Press Council of India
Manish shared:
"Justice Katju (retired judge of the Supreme Court of India), distributes his pearls of wisdom from the vantage point he occupies as Chairman of the PCI. One sample, from his blogpost, titled ''What is India''.
[quote]
India is broadly a country of immigrants, like North America.  Over 92% people living in India are not the original inhabitants of India.  Their ancestors came from outside, mainly from the North West.
[unquote]

A few more.....
[quote]
The original inhabitants of India, as it is believed now, were the pre-Dravidians tribals, who are called adivasis  or Scheduled Tribes in India e.g. the Bhils, the Santhals, the Gonds, the Todas, etc., that is, the speakers of the Austric, pre Dravidian languages e.g. Munda, Gondvi, etc.  They are hardly seven or eight percent of the Indian population today.  They were pushed into the forests by the immigrants and treated very badly.  Except for them all of us are descendents of immigrants who came mainly from the North West of India
... a common culture emerged in India which can broadly be called the Sanskrit-Urdu culture. ..."


Rajesh responded:
"...Justice Katju sounds less than informed on the issue of Indian "pre-history". Genetics research tell a different story, and so do our traditions.

99% of all Indians are actually indigenous if one considers the last 40,000 years. Or seeing it differently, it may be true that ancestors of all Indians came from outside, if one goes by the Out-of-Africa Theory.

But the Aryan Invasion Theory mess is something successive Indian Governments have nurtured, so it is to be expected that even among high functionaries of GoI, there would be many who agree with such thinking..."

Bhattacharyya adds:
"...Rajeshji: Regarding your comment below, while I agree that the study of Sanskrit should be encouraged, one must be cautious when interpreting remarks like the one Katju made. In this regard, Sheldon Pollock, a well-known U.S. scholar
[http://www.columbia.edu/cu/mesaas/faculty/directory/pollock.html], has made very similar statements ..." 

Rajiv Malhotra commented:
"...The post by S. Bhattacharya below is very important to understand. (BTW Pollock I think got the Padam Bhushan, higher than Padam Shri).

My recent encounter with Anantanand Rambachan ... caused me to investigate his background. It is amazing how most Hindus are unaware of his role in claiming that mantras are strictly "intellectual" devoid as energies, vibrations, etc. They are mere sentences like ordinary English. He is also against adhyatma-vidya/inner sciences and critical of yoga/meditation as something that contradicts Shankara. Also understand his pioneering role in undermining Swami Vivekananda and the whole movement he calls Hindu nationalism. This started with his 1984 PhD dissertation thesis written under a well known Catholic theologian in England. Ever since he has been nurtured by the Catholic Church as a "useful Hindu". There is so much eye opening stuff that I cant say more until I have written a longer article just on this.

One has to connect dots between Rambachan and others like Brian Pennington (who became famous for his book titled, "Was Hinduism Invented?" and Pollock who became famous for writing "The death of Sanskrit". Pollock is a left-wing sanskritist who claims that the old Brahamanical sanskrit is long dead; and he is reviving the "real" Sanskrit that belongs to subalterns like dalits, women, etc. whose voices have been oppressed. He got funded big time by Narayan Murthy's private foundation with a grant to select and translate Indian classical works. .." 

Uday shares some information:
"..

I am very thankful for having seen the video - this has been very insightful to get a sense of the mind of an academic scholar.!

coincidentally, I got another video that elaborates why sound had a special quality in Indian traditions as eloquently articulated by Rajivji and as easily dismissed by Sheldon. 

Clearly, this man is a Samskritam scholar, has even visited Sringeri and fairly well informed about Indian traditions - despite this, I was amused by the way in which he uses the Saraswati example in a derisive manner, expresses surprise on why the ancient Indian philosophers were also great poets, etc..."

Krishnan adds:

"...This what BD is all about. Katju may be say of 68 years of age, which means that he would have started education 63 years ago which would be when the British influence had not waned; It was at its peak. This would indicate that he would hve not known anything other than what has been taught by Missionaries or those Indian teachers who had been newly indoctrinated with the venom of POOR INDIANS. What else can you expect from other than what he is expressing? BD wants each one of us to get this poison out of the system and understand that we have to shift the chaff from the wheat. Berating or writing anjti katju slogans will get us know where. At least for us who have been introduced to our new selves let us make a change and think/talk/feel and behave differently..."

This next thread will be covered in depth in a separate thread, given the depth of the discussion and its implications.

November 29 (continuing discussion from November 12)
Very successful Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha, Ahmedabad
I just returned from India after attending the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha's 5th Bi-annual Conference in Ahmedabad. I was fortunate to be invited to deliver a...
.... Rajiv comment: I too have been talking with westerners since a few decades. But thats not good enough to make a comprehensive assessment.

1) I have also provoked them beyond the surface goody-goody demeanor by questioning some of their cherished assumptions, thus forcing a choice between mutually contradictory beliefs. (Example: reincarnation cannot be reconciled with Nicene Creed, so which one do they reject? ..

December 1

Indian Rationalist charged by authorities, flees death threats for claiming leaky pipe caused "Crying Jesus" Statue Curved_sabre shares:

"

"Indian Rationalist charged by authorities, flees death threats for claiming leaky pipe caused "Crying Jesus" Statue.The Govt. of India caved into pressure from the Bible-thumpers.."

Rajiv Malhotra responds:
"So much for Indian claims of secularism, science, rationality. Send this to the media, justices and scholars who love to portray Hinduism as superstitious and support "anti-superstition" laws. Under such laws, the very notion of blasphemy must be challenged as something based on superstition and encouraging superstition." 

December 2

An illustrative dialog on HuffPost While browsing through HuffPost I found the following interesting exchange in the comments of section of this article:...

December 3 [New Post]

"Rajiv Malhotra on his Indian Challenge to Western Universalism"
Sunthar posts an interview of Rajiv Malhotra: 

The most prominent Hindu public intellectual to challenge prejudiced Western representations of Indian civilization, Rajiv Malhotra is President of Infinity Foundation (IF), which has been funding and running projects to rehabilitate and valorize the unique achievements of the Dharma traditions. Desi Talk interviewed him after the Society for Hindu-Christian Studies panel in Chicago around his recent book, Being Different: The Indian Challenge to Western Universalism.

Q.What was your professional background before establishing IF?

A. I was educated in physics, then computer science, worked as a techie, then as a corporate executive in strategic planning. Later I became a management consultant to the tech industry and finally started my own ventures before taking early retirement at age 44.

Q. How has IF been serving the cause of Indian civilization?

It pioneered in identifying areas neglected by gurus, Hindu civic leaders, as well as by the academy, areas where Indian civilization was being under-represented and misrepresented in prevailing discourse. Sometimes it is out of ignorance, but often there are well funded institutional mechanisms that perpetuate such discourse. IF identified these areas, spoke forcefully against them, and got people interested among all three constituencies. I am disappointed by the level of progress in instituting corrective measures that would make a lasting impact... "

December 4 [New post]

Hinduism: The ultimate anti-fragile

Rajiv Malhotra posts:

"http://docsubra.blogspot.com/2012/12/hinduism-ultimate-anti-fragile.html\?spref=tw

The above is an interesting and innovative use of BD's thesis. Clearly, the author has invested serious time and persistence to understand BD in depth.

[My response would be: thanks, Rajiv ji. I just connected the dots.]

Meanwhile, the 'Life of Pi' continues to generate a vigorous debate
December 4 (continuing discussion from November 24)

Life of Pi - lessons for Hindus Equal-equal Hindus might feel encouraged by the attention paid to that idea in Ang Lee's visually magnificent movie, "The Life Of Pi". A sampling of Christian...

Manish watched the movie and reviews it:
"I saw the film yesterday. Apart from the visually rich moments, which incidentally had nothing to do with the theme of the film, it left me unimpressed, and even offended at the attempt to exoticise India and Hinduism. We are real people, practising the oldest continuing faith of the world, with a highly advanced philosophical foundation; we are not merely subjects to be exoticised in Hollywood films for the consumption of largely western/Christian audiences. To me, it looked like a disguised attempt at digestion.

And, there was the gratuitous contrast between the French quarter (clean) and the non-French areas (filthy) of the town.

I also agree with Raj Vedam that the martinet father was hugely miscast. Incidentally, we saw the same phenomenon of using a miscast ugly father in Aamir Khan's ''Taare Zameen Par''.

Sadly, ''The Life of Pi'' seeks to exoticise Hinduism, and in the process, even resorts to perpetuating fallacies. The most egregious of these is the old cliche about ''33 million'' deities in the Hindu pantheon. Even while spreading misinformation, they got it wrong --- the widespread misconception is ''330 million / 33 crore'', not ''33 million''.."

Surya K quotes from the Upanishads to highlight a factual error in the movie:
"Then Vidaghdha, son of Shakala, asked him, "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
Yajnavalkya, ascertaining the number through a group of mantras known as the Nivid (hymn on the Visvadevas), replied, "As many as are mentioned in the Nivid of the gods: three hundred and three, and three thousand and three."
"Very good," said the son of Shakala, "and how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Thirty-three."
"Very good, and how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Six."
"Very good, and how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Three."
"..."
"Two." ... "One and a half." ... "One."
"Very well, which are those three hundred and three, and three thousand and three, Yajnavalkya? ... "

Hemachandra comments on the book:
"... The boy cannot make sense of
Christian religion ("peculiar psychology", "Son appears only once in far away West Asia", "sense of disbelief", "bothered by it", etc) and is baffled by it. But, it suddenly cops out saying "I could not get Him [Christ] out of my head"
"the more He bothered me, the less I could forget Him"
and concludes "the more I learned about Him, the less I wanted to leave Him" The author forcibly makes the kid a Christian believer without a single good argument for him to follow Christ."

Ganesh adds:
"...Life of Pi was a definite attempt to clandestinely sell christianity to Indians. Just pointing out a few dialogues I noted.

1) Irrfan Khan says he is a Catholic Hindu.

2) Says "thank you Vishnu for showing me Christ through you".

3) There is a scene where pi as a kid says "I want to get baptized" and his Hindu mother (enacted by Tabu) gives an approving smile...
....
5) One scene shows the cast away pi beating up a fish, feeling bad but again saying "thank you Vishnu for coming in the form of a fish and providing food".

6) One can't get away from the fact that there was a definitive attempt to show that only christianity has is THE most righteous religion which has all the say about love and knows the true meaning of love..." 
  
Carpentier senses an overreaction:
"I think some people are making too much of the film as if it were a scholarly treatise on Hindu philosophy. It is not, it is a multi-cultural work of fiction that brings to life for an international audience the esoteric wisdom contained in the Indian scriptures and in others as well. The fact that all great Hindus from Antiquity to our days felt a natural kinship with and understanding for the real spirituality of other traditions (leaving aside dogmas and cultural habits and mores) is what the life of Pi emphasizes because it transcends monotheistic creeds..and gives a metaphysical symbolic reading of reality which in effect invalidates orthodox "semitic" theology. The fact that the Churches are uncomfortable with the film for obvious reasons should not make Hindus behave similarly because they should realise that the film symbolises the quest for mokshas (liberation from the ego) and its not an attempt at converting people to one or another religion."

Moderator responds:
"..Moderator's Note: ..., "Thanks Vishnu for leading me to Christ", said in word and deed, is not even that ambiguous....
.... This may not be commenter's intent, but it sounds like advice to Hindus to take the 'high road' and not criticize, while the Tiger goes about it's business of digestion. Even Pi, the movie's hero, understood the tiger better than that :) ...
 

Ganesh responds to Come Carpentier and argues that the movie is more about fate:
".."the film symbolises the quest for mokshas (liberation from the ego) and its not an attempt at converting people to one or another religion".

Neither does the film symbolise the quest for moksha nor does it attempt to hide the ulterior motive of wanting to influence audience (especially in India and China) towards christianity by using carefully crafted, emotionally tugging visuals with dialogues like I had stated in my earlier mail to the group.

That many movie critics have even gone on to give the review based on superflous understanding of the movie is quite astounding. I'm sure most Indian movie critics would've just done a copy paste job of reviews from abroad. Really funny that people want to say Life of Pi gives out the message that one needs to believe in God, while I seemed to be one of the few who understood clearly that the movie in effect was driving the point that one needs to believe in fate. The scene at the very end of the movie, when the Japanese insurers come to meet the cast away pi admitted in a hospital requesting him to narrate his unbelievable story in a logical way that they could understand, highlights that point. Irrespective of the two versions that pi narrates, what was unambiguous was, it was because of fate that he became a cast away, it was fate which ordained the ship to sink on that particular night leaving him stranded on a life boat with those animals,.."