Showing posts with label Sandeep. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Sandeep. Show all posts

RMF Summary: Week of March 5 - 11, 2013

March 7
Jesus Yoga - the website
Ravi shares a link.

March 7
My new blog - THE HIJACKING OF WHARTON
I just tweeted this new blog. (Given the controversial nature of my blog, it took them 2 days to finally accept it completely unchanged.) ..

 Karthik comments:
"... In a Daily Pennsylvanian report, Toorjo Ghose, one of the U Penn humanities sepoys who led the campaign to disinvite Modi, has sought to justify his position as not being contrary to free expression:

"Ghose said he did not believe it was a free speech issue because Modi had been invited as an honored, plenary speaker and this position was tantamount to the conference endorsing his development ideas.We are under no obligation as an institution to endorse his brand of politics and that's exactly what we would have done had the invitation gone through, Ghose said."

In fact, Ghose is lying, and U Penn had every obligation to let the Wharton students' invitation stand. By inviting Modi to speak at their conference, the student organizers of the Wharton India Economic Forum had expressed their intention to do exactly this: facilitate a distinguished guest who represents certain ideas of development and a certain brand of politics. The WIEF conference is organized by students of the Wharton School, and should they choose to endorse certain ideas of development by association with the guests they invite, it is entirely within their rights of open expression, guaranteed by the University of Pennsylvania itself, to do so.

See the Provosts' Guidelines for Open Expression, as listed on the U Penn website:


Of particular relevance here is:
"D. In case of conflict between the principles of the Guidelines on Open Expression and other University policies, the principles of the Guidelines shall take precedence."
...
The rank hypocrisy of Ghose, who himself availed of constitutional free speech guarantees by participating in the Occupy Philadelphia movement, stands vivdly illuminated. Apparently, open expression is fine as long as it happens to serve his own political proclivities.  Political positions in opposition to his own are to be silenced by any means necessary; blackmail, activism and thought policing are perfectly acceptable when it comes to obviating the WIEF student organizers' right to open expression. "
Rajiv's response: "This is why I am glad to see that Kartik and many others have posted their comments on Huffpost. This is how ideas spread, not through private whispering. Thanks to Kartik and others..."
Karthik further adds:
"It's an astonishing volte-face. The shrill Sepoys who relentlessly castigate Modi on allegations of human rights abuse, invariably respond with deafening silence to the Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh. In fact, some of them actually transform into David Duke-calibre Holocaust Deniers on that subject. One particularly nasty specimen is Sarmila Bose, who has crafted an entire "scholarly" career out of systematically minimizing the scale of Pakistan's atrocities. In a curious inversion of the usual Sepoy propensity to cite overblown atrocity-lit, Bose has actually deflated the well documented figures of three million murders and ten million displaced by the Pakistani army, to arrive at merely "thousands" of victims. 
... In Bose's case, the Hidden White Hand accidentally showed itself by clicking "Reply All" on a certain e-mail chain. The encouraging words of the Woodrow Wilson Institute's William B Milam, urging Bose to simply ignore those who questioned her credibility, were inadvertently sent to everyone who had been included on that chain... including her questioners! ..... 
Here is an article by Naheem Mohaiemen, a Bangladesh history scholar, which lays out a devastating critique of Bose's thesis. The debate continues, with Bose's response answered by a crippling rejoinder from Mohaiemen:

Hope the above references are useful."
March 9
An encounter with Jehovah's Witnesses
I just wanted to post a note about about my recent encounter with Jehovah's Witnesses. It was Saturday and while I had better things to do I started on fixing ...
...They started on the idea of "being saved". I asked, "saved from what"?
"Oh, don't you know, we are all born sinners", said the JW. I then asked why I was a sinner and the reply was exactly along the lines Rajiv Ji talks about - Adam/Eve and Original Sin, Virgin Birth blah blah blah. And therefore, he concluded that we must accept Jesus as our savior. I
gave him a small talk about my birth being divine and God being within myself and the notion of God realization etc. Then I asked him if he (the JW) would pay for my sin. He said No, but that Jesus would. I pointed out the fact that either he unwilling to do what JC would do and
therefore somewhat hypocritical, or expected another person to pay for his faults including any sin he commits. A blank stare ensued and by now they were a tad uncomfortable. Seeing his weakness I had to nuke now, so
I asked rather innocently "Does Jesus believe in the Original Sin"? He frantically searched his copy of the Bible and merely muttered, Umm, Jesus believed in the Old Testament ... and so must be... Was time for them to leave. [But I myself do not know if JC himself
believed in the original sin]...."

March 9
Universities in US & China are getting lessons on human values from
Universities in US & China are getting lessons on human values from the great epic - Ramayana ...

AHMEDABAD: Students at universities in China are getting lessons on human values from the great Hindu epic - Ramayana.

Wise sayings from Valmiki's text are being adapted by the universities teaching Hindi in China and are being made relevant to the current world situations. At least six leading universities in China including the prestigious Peking University, the Beijing Foreign Studies University as well as colleges in different parts of China are teaching Hindi, which has become a popular foreign language in China.

"We are taught verses from Ramayana as part of literature classes at the university," said Eric Huidram, a student-turned Chinese translator and interpreter from Manipur.

Several universities in the US have included reading the Ramayana as part of comparative humanities and literature sessions on Asia.

It was through the efforts of Chinese indologist Ji Xianlin that many Chinese learnt the language of Sanskrit and the epic Ramayana. Ji, who founded the Department of Eastern Languages at Peking University, translated Ramayana from the original Sanskrit to Chinese in poetry form. Ji's translated work of Ramayana and Mahabharata will be displayed at the culture park being planned at Kailash Mansarovar by India China Economic and Cultural Council (ICEC)..."



[Sandeep's 'Rediscovery of India' is among the very best, if not the best blog whose content if filled with original Indian thought]
March 9
Fwd: [TheBecoming] Fwd: How Wharton Scored a Huge Self-Goal by dis-i
JP shares: How Wharton Scored a Huge Self-Goal March 5, 2013 By  Sandeep Balakrishna




[We will create a separate webpage for the collection of Rajiv's links below and display it on the right of the blog]
March 11
My Wikipedia entry is obsolete, misleading
".... fix the Wikipedia entry on me.
  • It gives too much importance to wendy doniger as though i have nothing useful or original of my own to say, and i am some sort of heckler bothering her.
  • even in the context of doniger it does not lead the reader to my extensive articles at Sulekha (at least half a dozen large ones) on the whole freudian psychoanalysis issue.
  • there is no mention of BI or BD- each even deserves its own page. There is abundant material available on these books at their respective web sites, and other places like the hitchhiker's guide.
  • no mention of my YouTubes
  • No mention of my writings on Huffington Post, FirstPost, Niti Central, Patheos, Beliefnet and lots of other places.
With all due respects may I point out that our folks often tend to suffer from:
  • Paralysis by analysis: this means going on and on with planning, analyzing some very large scale project that becomes too unwieldy to ever happen, rather than DOING something manageable quickly which can be extended later.....
....specific examples of changes to my Wiki entry that I feel would be fair. Here are some that come shouting out:


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RMF Summary: Week of January 3 - 9, 2013

This first thread has a lot of deep discussion and will be covered in depth in a separate post.
January 3 (continuing discussion)
Re: Sanskrit Dictionary : Amarakosha and MW dictionary Comparison
Dhirendra is just mouthing off statements randomly without offering any explanations for his claims. (1) To protect the wild-life is modern times Scientific...
 
January 4 (continuing discussion)
History of India recommendation
Please suggest a one or maximum two volume history of India ( in English) for a Westerner who knows very little of India. Thanks in advance!...

We continue to list books cited by contributors. Follow the original thread in the e-Group or see last week's post for more references. There is also a discussion with 'Dhirendra' in this thread (as in the previous thread).

 Umesh:
Veer Savarkar's book, 'Six Glorious Epochs Of Indian History'  is a commentary "not a history in its academic sense”on the significant events and periods in our national life, taking a broad survey of the growth and survival of our Hindu race. In a way this attempt of Savarkar has been singular, barring few honorable exceptions.
The general trend of the Histories, written, read and taught in schools and colleges have been one of eulogizing the foreigners ...

Surya:
History Of Ancient India (portraits Of A Nation), 1/e
 By Kapur, Kamlesh, Published: December, 2010

Book description:
The history of India has been written and rewritten several times, each time with a different context. Historical narratives act as a powerful vehicle of culture and tradition from generation to generation. Therefore it is essential to give an authentic narrative of India's past using all the new evidence which has surfaced through archaeological excavation in the Indus-Sarasvati region. Researches in the field of ecology, natural history and genetics have given us enough pointers enabling us to write a fairly accurate history of Ancient India. This book ties up all this new evidence with the internal evidence from the literary sources....

[Passing on Author's clarification:
The book covers the time frame from 7th Millennia B.C. to 1000 A.D....]
 
Jaideep:
K. D. Sethna's "Ancient India in a new light". This is history of India from the remotest references to Prithu Vainya (Megasthenes' Dionysus), upto the Guptas and Satvahanas.

In the first part, it shows that the Puranic Chronology is fully consistent internally as well as with the writings of Al Beruni, Megasthenes, Hiuen Tsang, etc. It also critiques the modern chronology placing the Mauryas in 300 BC and puts Guptas there instead...

... PPS: As far as the history of the Rigvedic period goes, please also read Shrikant Talageri's "The Rigveda and the Avesta: The final Evidence", 2008. And please read it cover to cover....

Carpentier adds:
"...In the light of a recent Nat Geo genetic survey which traces the ancestry of many North Indians to Central Asia, there is now a claim that it "proves" that Aryans did indeed come from Central Asia (after getting there from Africa) and came to India, presumably bearing the Vedas and Brahmanism with them. This is of course a wild telescoping of dates as it assumes that the "Aryans" came to India around the usually bandied about date of 1500 BC, when in fact Central Asian migrants might have come some 50 000 years ago, assuming that they did not go the other way and migrate from India to Central Asia. This shows how much people tend to stick to established ideas once they have decided that anything that contradicts them is inspired by "Hindutvadi" communal and chauvinistic religious notions" 

January 4 (continuing discussion from January 3)
Swami Vivekananda becomes Masculine Nationalist
The author is trying to connect recent sexual crimes to Hindu nationalism. Taking the aggression out of masculinity Sanjay Srivastava (Professor of Sociology...  

E-group owner posts links to responses to this article published in 'The Hindu'
Moderator's Note: Multiple posts combined:]

Ram shares:

A reply by Shri.Aravindan Neelakandan [Co-Author with Rajiv of "Breaking India"] on CentreRightIndia 

Desh shares his take:
http://www.drishtikone.com/gobbledygook-analysts-reverse-hatred-and-targeting-culture-will-not-solve-indias-rape-problem/
 
[also recommend Sandeep Balakrishna's response on sandeepweb].


Sandeep posts:
More views on women by Swami Vivekananda can be found in Nivedita's book "The Master as I saw him" [this seems to be the full text]

 "... He held with unfaltering strength, that the freedom to refrain from marriage, if she wished, ought to be considered as a natural right of woman. A child, whose exclusive leaning to the devotional life was already strongly marked before she was twelve, had once appealed to him for protection against proposals of alliance that were being made by her family. And he, by using his influence with her father, and suggesting increased dowers for the younger daughters, had been successful in aiding her. Years had gone by. but she was still faithful to the life she had adopted, with its long hours of silence and retirement; and all her younger sisters were now wedded. To force such a spirit into marriage would in his eyes have been a desecration....

    The Swami was not unaware of the existence of social problems, in connection with marriage, in all parts of the world. "These unruly women," he exclaims, in the course of a lecture in the West, "from whose minds the words 'bear and forbear' are gone for ever " He could admit, also, when continuance in a marriage would involve treachery to the future of humanity, that separation was the highest and bravest course for husband or wife to take. In India he would constantly point out that Oriental and Occidental ideals needed to be refreshed by one another. He never attacked social institutions as such, holding always that they had grown up out of a desire to avoid some evil which their critic was possibly too headstrong to perceive. But he was not blind to the over-swing of the pendulum, in one direction or the other..."

Ravindra shares:
"There is an age old festival, called Madana Trayodashi, that does for women what Kadva-Choth does for men. The festival for one reason or other has been forgotten in most parts.

On this day husband prepares scented waters with which he would bathe his wife followed by Pooja..." 


Vanita questions:
"Don't you think Western/Eastern is another binary divide. Does it not make sense to think in terms of what is good for us at this time within the overall context that we are exposed.  I think we are now exposed to many more multinational and multicultural issues that transcend our colonial baggage in to day's shrinking world. "

Rajiv's comment:
"The above attitude is well addressed in BD. Please read it first. Its a moron attitude of cop out, laziness, tamas - in the name of lofty "we are all one" - so you dont have to understand the choices or worldview and their tradeoffs. Enough has been written/said in response already. Please read that, and THEN we can spend time taking it further."
Kundan responds to Vanita (so well written, it's tough to excerpt, but will try)
""Being Different" and "being the radical opposite of the other" are two different things. The former comes from an extensive exploration of the cosmology of different worldviews and systems; the latter comes from a simplistic portrayal of an epistemology that has not transcended binary divides.

The Indian world view transcends and integrates binaries. The western worldview (sans the experiences of some mystics who were persecuted and not allowed to come into the mainstream by the Church) is embedded in many different binaries like spirit/matter, body/soul, mind/matter, God/world, mind/body, subject/object, etc. Even postmodernism (which incidentally has been massively influenced by Buddhism and Vedanta, though not explicitly acknowledged) that challenges some of these binaries ultimately end up in promoting and espousing subtler binaries.

When I write the above, I am espousing a prominent difference between the Indian and the Western civilization. If I were stating things like rational west/intuitive east, Cartesian West/Wholistic East, I would have been operating under the western cosmology and epistemology that has not transcended binaries--... When we speak of our difference, being mindful of the space that goes beyond the binaries, we liberate ourselves from the ill effects of an orinetalist exercise and do not operate in the same framework that we are critiquing.... "

[thanks to Sunthar for his efforts in the thread below. He also also compiled Rajiv Malhotra's works, which will be perma-linked on this site soon]
January 5
Chinese Non Translatables
..."There are more than 35,000 Chinese words or phrases that cannot be properly translated into the English language. Words like yin and yang, kungfu and fengshui. Add to this another 35,000 Sanskrit terminology, mainly from India. Words like buddha, bodhisattva and guru."

Different people in different times and different places, think and discover different things. That was bad news for Germany, so Leibniz and Hegel urged the Germans to use only German already established concepts and annotate them with "chinese" or "indian". This way, the world looked and felt to the Germans as if it was German. Hence the idea, that ONE
civilization can replace all others and will never miss a thing.

Language hegemony: It's shengren, stupid!
By Thorsten Pattberg, China Daily, November 25, 2011

If you are an American or European, chances are you've never heard about shengren, minzhu and wenming. If one day you promote them, you might even be accused of cultural treason. That's because they are Chinese concepts.

They are often conveniently translated as "philosophers", "democracy" and "civilization". But they are none of those. They are something else. Something the West lacks. And since foreign concepts were irritating for most Westerners, they were quickly removed from the books and records in the past and, if possible, from the history of the world dominated by the West. In fact, German philosopher G.W.F. Hegel once remarked that the East plays no part in the formation of
the history of thought.....

Rajiv's comment: 
The author of the article below, Thorsten Pattberg, was introduced to me via Sunthar. We then sent Thorsten a gift copy of BD. Thorsten wrote... "After having read your excellent work "Being Different", I immediately had to
change text passages of my "East-West dichotomy" and included you as one of the most influential promoters of Eastern thought. A new edition will be published by Beijing Foreign Language Press in March 2013. The FLP is a very prominent publisher in China. May I kindly ask you for a "blurb" for my book? A blurb, according to the FLP, is a brief statement of three sentences or so which comments on my book in a positive way."

I sent him a blurb for his book as requested. He also wrote the following to Sunther: "I will feature 'Being Different' on my little website, and help to spread the word."

... No wonder my critics at AAR ignored this issue although its so loud and clear in the book."

January 5
T.S. Rukmani had the distinction of occupying the Chair of Hindu Studies at Concordia University in Montreal, which was the only permanent academic chair specifically designated for Hinduism in north america. Its donor community had insisted in a practicing Hindu scholar as occupant, and provisions were made for this up front.

Now that Prof. Rukmani has retired (and I just chatted with her a few minutes ago), things have fallen apart. The university has reclassified it as a "line appointment" to be made under normal "university policies". This is jargon for saying that their own selection committee will select whosoever they choose. The Hindu community gets sidelined and reduced to the role of "adviser" which is not binding and is merely appeasement to try and get more money.

Numerous other chairs have fallen prey to similar destinies, after the initial appointment retires ...  Typically, they get hoodwinked because of their own weakness - to impress the whites, to get their names in prominent announcements, to boost their stature as "leaders" who are working for "the good of Hinduism".

I say this because history keeps repeating itself. I have been giving lectures on this problem since the mid 1990s, trying to offer my services free of charge as consultant to negotiate long term agreements that will withstand, and to ensure the right appointments are made...

... But this has nothing with with what ought to matter: The ability to produce game-changing discourse that challenges the incumbent positions and incumbent power structures in ways that will invariably be unpopular. That would require competence, creativity and courage beyond the local leaders. The university side is far stronger intellectually, in negotiation sophistication, and most of all, they understand this weakness of our local leaders.  They know how to play "good cops".

The rest, as they say, is history (repeating itself). So dont get fooled each time you come across yet another group that pops up and makes grandiose announcements. "
January 7
Nitin shares:
Interesting blog on huffington post. Looks like this NY Times best seller author has read the Integral vs Synthetic unity of BD.

... We believe, first, that we are separate from God (if we believe in God at all). Our Deity, we are told, separated us from Him when the world was created, because of the unworthiness of our species...

Second, we believe we are separate from each other. Generally, we use a softer word. We are individuals, we say. And so, in the cultures of the world's western nations especially, it is our individual rights that have become paramount....

Third, we believe we are separate from life itself ....

Has anyone noticed that the systems emerging from these beliefs are not working? Not our political systems, not our economic systems, not our ecological systems, not our educational systems, not our social systems, and not our spiritual systems. None of them have produced the outcomes for which we have been yearning.

Actually, it's worse. They have all produced exactly the opposite..."
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RMF Summary: Week of October 31 - November 6, 2011

October 31
Times of India article on BEING DIFFERENT
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/spirituality/vintage-wisdo\ m/Order-chaos-and-creation/articleshow/10552328.cms ... 		  


November 1
Re: Indians' greater comfort with complexity, uncertainty, ambiguity
Venkat posts: Ref: Indians' greater comfort with complexity, uncertainty, ambiguity, improvisation, blurred boundaries, inter-connectedness

This is the reason why there are more Indians in MNC leadership position and also in Obama administration compared to the Chinese and Japanese (who have been in the US for a longer period of time).


India May Be the Ideal CEO Training Ground - TIME
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2084441,00.html

"The Indians are the friendly and familiar faces of Asia," says Ader. "They think in English, they're used to multinationals in their country, they're very adaptive, and they're supremely confident." The subcontinent has been global for centuries, having endured, and absorbed, waves of foreign colonizers, from the Mughals to the British. Practiced traders and migrants, Indians have impressive transnational networks. "The earth is full of Indians," wrote Salman Rushdie. "We get everywhere." Unlike, say, a Swede or a German, an Indian executive is raised in a multiethnic, multifaith, multilingual
society, one nearly as diverse as the modern global marketplace..."

November 2
Journal if ICPR Review of Invading the Sacred
This review of my earlier book, *Invading the Sacred*, has appeard in India's most prestitious and academically influential journal of philosophy. Please read...


November 3
Relevent to chpt 5 of BEING DIFFERENT: The trouble with Sanskrit tra
Two interesting comments below . The article has to do with current controversy over AK Ramanujam's essay on Ramayana.

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/15/ramanujans-ramayana/

The trouble with Sanskrit being translated by westerners is that it lacks experience of the Indianness or Santanness. In the 19th and 20th century, pandits were hired and texts were translated. The colonisers knew their language and the Santanpandits knew Sanskrit. Now , the pandits clearly did not know language of colonisers. Then what would you get for translation in English. All skewed work. I have been in
Hare Krishna movement for 35 yrs, from a western background. I feel you have to live in India and all funding should be done in India to delineate the texts. It is only in India where you still have persons who speak, write and chant Sanskrit very correctly.

Sanskrit is the only language which has a ” sadas” which approximately means “Debate with an audience”. In no language you have a ‘sadas”. Here the ugly competition of academics is totally missing. Hence there is no bias.
I have attended such debates in India. They are marvellous and absolutely no hatred is there, which comes out prominently in an academic atmosphere. It would be good if pandits are funded to do research in India rather than give it to westerners, who just hold the pulpits of academics for funding , which is to sensationalise and survive with enlarged egos. The beauty of Vedic texts is that no sage
was bothered for credit, whereas acdemics are always bothered about credit..."

....Ramanujan, poor fellow, in the article complained of here, was merely discharging his duty to Pollock whose witless remarks on the Ramayana have to be seen to be believed. (vide
http://socioproctology.blogspot.com/2011/04/sheldon-pollocks-fatalistic-view-of.\
html)

Pollock, of course, is a Padma Shri and gets money from Infosys and so on. The odd thing about both Witzel and Pollock (Wendy O’Doniger is just bat-shit crazy) is that their reliance on a historicist hermeneutics privileges one particular sacerdotal caste. Pollock in his ‘language of Gods and men’ makes statements utterly devoid of logic. He presents evidence against himself and, without even noticing
the contradiction, goes on to make ridiculous claims. No Hindu, of whatever caste- including Sanskrit speaking Kannadiga Mathurs- make such claims.... 		 

BNA responds:
"Some of the worst and crude translation of a bunch of Cigar smoking alcoholic Western scholars
lead to equating their own behavior to justify them with Vedic living.

examples:
"Madhu" was translated as alcohol in stead of Honey. Fruit juices also became "Wine" for them;

The brown liquid the priest were drinking, that worked like a stimulant.
They forget to read that this comes with adding hot water to a leaf that was green and yellow dried to dark brown
to get that brown liquid stimulant is "Tea" abundant in Himalayas and not Wine - that they drank before and after havans.
Coffee is not native to India, but tea is."
 
November 3
Prof. John Hobson's review of BEING DIFFERENT
Reviewer: John M. Hobson, author of The Eurocentric Conception of World Politics (Cambridge University Press, 2012) and Professor of Politics and International...

November 6
Article validating the Breaking India thesis
http://www.samachar.com/Pakistan-and-Chinas-proxy-war-against-India-llfb\ Klgdhab.html?utm_source=top25_most_read&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=sama\

November 6
TOI comments- Breaking india and Tamil Nadu nuclear plant
In the below article ... the comment which has garnered most "agree" mentions Rajiv's Breaking India. The sixt comment by a different reader also...

November 6
Re: BEING DIFFERENT to become textbook in University of Delhi-- fant
Fantastic! This is the most important develiopment. I hope others will soon follow. N.S. Rajaram...

  
  








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RMF Summary: Week of December 4 - 10, 2012

December 4 (continuing discussion from November 24)
Life of Pi - lessons for Hindus
Equal-equal Hindus might feel encouraged by the attention paid to that idea in Ang Lee's visually magnificent movie, "The Life Of Pi". A sampling of Christian...

Harsh argues:
"I agree with Mr. Ganesh. Why did PI convert to Christianity? it had nothing to do with the story or plot. Even my "secular" friends felt that PI converting to Christianity made no sense whatsoever. Infact if they could have explained the dharma philosophy nicely in the circumstances shown but it is seen from a Christian POV."

Carpentier responds:
"Actually he does not convert. As a child he wanted to be baptised but it was only a desire and then he went through other religious experiences like Ramakrishna Paramahansa. In the end he is shown having married the Bharata Natyam dancer he had loved as a teenager and having given his children Hindu names. His worldview is distinctly Indic, not "semitic" throughout the movie though it is inclusive, as all truly sadhakas are, in all times and places..." 

December 6 (continuing discussion from December 4)\
Hinduism: The ultimate anti-fragile
The above is an interesting and innovative use of BD's thesis. Clearly, the...

Vibhaa responds:
"Blog author posits that in Stage 2 (1857-1947), Hindu society joined hands with Muslim society. This position is arguable as Muslim leadership in India seems to have collaborated with the Christian West against the nativist Dharma. Syed Ahmed Khan, MA Jinnah are some major examples that apparently applied people of the book solidarity against "Non-Believers""

December 6 (continuing discussion from November 22)
Angana Chatterji hosted at Harvard by Michael Witzel
In Breaking India, Rajiv & Aravindan write about some US academics who produce literature with questionable funding that could aid in the disintegration of...

Bhattacharya notes:
"Only one week from the day this thread regarding Angana Chatterji began, a relevant development has taken place. According to recent news reports [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/specials/gujarat-assembly-elections/US-\
lawmakers-urge-Hillary-Clinton-to-continue-denying-visa-to-Narendra-Modi/article\
show/17473016.cms], in a letter addressed to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton dated 29 November 2012, twenty-five U.S. lawmakers, including Congressmen Joe Pitts, Dan Burton, Trent Franks, and James Moran (all discussed in message #3835 in this thread) as well as others, have recommended that Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi be denied a visa. In their letter, the lawmakers specifically mention Modi's alleged involvement in the 2002 Gujarat
riots. It is notable that 11 of the 13 U.S. Congressmen named as signatories to the letter in the news article referenced above are members of the Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission [http://tlhrc.house.gov/members.asp], the very same
Congressional committee before which Angana Chatterji testified in March of 2012 [http://tlhrc.house.gov/hearing_notice.asp?id=1227 , click on Chatterji's name
and Transcript/Webcast in left margin for documents/testimony], as discussed in message #3835 in this thread. Another signatory to the November 2012 letter,
Congressman Frank Wolf, is co-Chairman of this committee. (A complete list of the twenty-five signatories and the full text of the letter were not found on the web)...." 

December 6 (New Thread)
AAR session on Being Different
Rohit posts:
"Comments of Sri Koenraad Elst on the AAR session on Being Different: The debate about Rajiv Malhotra's book Being Different was very instructive. At the end, Malhotra ably put his critics in their place, but first they had their say. I was appalled by the bad manners of Brian Pennington against the invited responder, Rajiv Malhotra: he wondered aloud, after a long diatribe which I guess was his privilege, why the AAR and organizer Francis Clooney s.j. had cared to pay any attention to Malhotra at all, let alone invite him. It was typical for these academics: they fight by exclusion, they shamelessly  exploit the fact that they are in and Rajiv is out, eventhough his book will prove more influential (and far more factual) than anything they will ever produce, or than the wrongly famous Orientalism by Edward Said..."
Rajeev responds:
"Rajiv comment: I very much appreciated Koenraad's participation from the audience. He pointed out that those like Pennigton who accused me of "essentializing" Hinduism were themselves essentializing the notion of "minorities". The panel failed to offer any response.

I agree that Edelman (like Rambachan) completely lacked creativity, originality or any imagination to look beyond the box of "standard works" on Hinduism by one "side" or another.

Regarding history-centrism: someone from the audience asked Edelman how the historicity of Krishna according to Vaishnavs resembled and how it differed from that of Jesus. He ought to have taken this opportunity to give some thoughtful remarks. But he look dumbfounded and muttered something like "I have not thought about this." Amazing that the man who was the Vaishnav expert on the panel had never bothered to think of this rather obvious question.

In my response to Edelman, I pointed out that his credentials as Vaishnav scholar (which he went on emphasizing) were based on his years of study at the feet of his guru Dr. Satya Narayan Das, who is arguably today's foremost prominent exponent of Sri Jiva Goswami's Achinta-bheda-abheda. (I happen to know this fact about Edelman's learning of Vaishnavism from Dr. Das.) Then I pointed out much to his embarrassment that: Dr. Das is a dear friend and supporter of my work; that he had read the entire manuscript of BD a year it got published and made numerous comments and suggested changes, that i had used his interpretation of Vedanta in Appendix A and not relied entirely upon Shankara; and that he had written a most wonderful endorsement of this book. This completely slid the rug from under the feet of this scholar.

I have finished reading Rambachan's PhD dissertation written in 1984 where his ideas come out clearly against Swami Vivekananda and others he thinks of as the culprit starting what he calls "Neo-Hinduism". I have also finished reading very thoroughly the complete writings of Hacker (a Christian missionary) on this matter along with related works by others. So I will first write a full purva paksha of this school of anti-Vivekananda...

Of course Penington's crass and very unscholarly conduct is most reprehensible and deserves to be address as such. There was no scholarly content in his paper that was relevant to BD - mostly generic attacks on the type of scholarship he presumes Hindus to produce. I doubt he read BD more than skimming through it and looking for things quickly to get his bearings.

Below is Dr. Das' endorsement of BD:

Reviewer: Dr. Satya Narayan Das, Founder of Jiva Institute of Vedic Studies, Vrindavan

Many Indian spiritual leaders, lacking a profound knowledge of their own culture, and feeling inferior to the West, try to respond to the Western challenge by showing how Indian and western religions are the same. They chant "sarva-dharma-sama-bhava" (all religions are equal) out of context, causing much confusion. In the midst of this morass arises the ”lotus of Rajiv” (the word rajiv means a lotus in Sanskrit) in the form of his book, Being Different. Rajiv Malhotra's work is a kind of yajna that reverses the gaze upon the West through the lens of Indian knowledge systems. This process is traditionally called purva paksha, and in Rajiv’s work it is given a new mission and a new importance.... 
... The dharmic traditions have been a target for digestion into the belly of Western culture. Being Different challenges the legitimacy of such attempts with profound logic and examples. Its analysis of Abrahamic religions shows how they are history-centric. This fixation drives them into claims of exclusiveness and gives them anxiety over cultural differences which they seek to resolve through appropriation, assimilation, conversion - all forms of digestion that obliterate whatever seems challenging.... 
... Being Different breaks new ground in that direction. The result is a highly original and sincere attempt to compare the basic paradigms of Indian and Western thought. This book will open the eyes of any fair-minded reader regardless of worldview. " 

Shashi adds:
"In his book Decolonizing the Hindu Mind, Elst strenuously points out that there is a dearth for good material on Hinduism that takes a position. In that context Elst was dealing with the issues in political arena. Better yet, this precisely what Rajiv has been doing in the academic arena (and other non-political forums), which as Rajiv has pointed out in past, will have the greatest impact.

In http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2012/12/impressions-from-aar-conference.html, Elst says “It was typical for these academics: they fight by exclusion, they shamelessly  exploit the fact that they are in and Rajiv is out …”.

This is an old trick: they only indulge in monologs. If they had ever entered into a constructive Indian style purva and uttar paksha based debate with Indian pundits, among other things – AIT would never be born and we would not have to clean their mess..."

December 7 (New Thread)
Appropriating Music -- Takadimi.net?
I ran into this website in course of my research on rhythms -- http://www.takadimi
.net I suspect that this is a u-turn/appropriation classic -- Read the FAQ...


December 7 (New Thread)
A martyr in making in south india
Ram posts: 
Christian catholic church is slowly initiating attempts to digest the tamilnadu , kerala functions of pongal (makar sankaranti) by attaching it with the supposed martyrdom of Devasahayam pillai. An article on the whole myth of Devayasahayam pillai being killed for his religion

Shanti notes:
"Thank God we Hindus follow the Lunar calendar! Otherwise the Church would have long ago found a 'Christian reason' for each of our other festivals too.  The Church is known to have done this across Europe to all pagan festivals:

... In fact there is a widely held theory that the celebration of Christmas on 25th December is not the actual birthdate of Jesus but selected by the Church to coincide with the pagan winter festival."

 December 7 (New Thread)
Ravi posts:
Prof. Ashok Aklujkar (Dept of Asian Studies, Univ of British Columbia
‘Languages give people a sense of identity’

Ashok N Aklujkar is Professor Emeritus, Department of Asian Studies, at the University of British Columbia. He received his PhD degree in Sanskrit and Indian Studies from Harvard University and was the founder of the Canadian Association of Sanskrit and Related Studies. He has published groundbreaking research on the Sanskrit Linguistic Tradition and Poetics.

Why is Sanskrit a dying language in India?
Incorrect educational policies are primarily to be blamed because they are aimed at taking Sanskrit out of the mainstream. We should create more space for languages in general — regional as well as languages of historical importance such as Sanskrit, Pali and Prakrit. Even Hindi is slowly being rooted out. This is because we emphasise on English way too much.

Why do you think Sanskrit, in particular, should be focussed upon?
For over 1,000-1,200 years, all Indian languages have drawn their sustenance from Sanskrit. Our vocabulary is based on Sanskrit. It cemented India when it was politically divided. Each individual needs a sense of identity, which is built through philosophy, religious teachings, ethics, and all of this is rooted in Sanskrit. This is why we need to promote it.

What problems do you foresee if we do not focus on languages?
If we do not pay enough attention to languages and humanities in general, our social problems are going to increase. Each language has a view of the world embedded in it and suggests different ways of solving social and scientific problems. So if we give English precedence, we are impoverishing the world of other points of view...

What, according to you, is the future of the humanities stream?
The policymakers as well as the public at large need to be educated. The people of India are restless because they are realising that their dharmic roots are being taken away and are being destroyed in the name of globalisation and westernisation. This will lead to a loss of truly creative people. ..."

Rajiv responds:
"I am glad to see the media give Ashok his due. In 2002 (exactly a decade ago) Infinity Foundation gave a grant to Harvard University for the purpose of appointing Ashok Aklujkar as full-time visiting professor. He taught courses there and did research. In the prior year, Infinity Foundation's visiting professor for Hinduism Studies at Harvard University had been Arvind Sharma. Both these are mentioned at our web site..."
 

This thread provides many links and information that brings us up to date with the latest debate. We plan to summarize this in a separate post.
December 7 (New Thread)
Critics Respond to Hindu Intellectual's Attempt at Being Different


Note: This error-filled article discussed in the next thread has been exposed for its lack of research by Sandeep Balakrishna here.
December 8 (New Thread)
The Case for Indian Islam by Neil Padukone
films2020 posts:
" ... Pragati is the publication of Takshashila Institution, a think-tank based in New..."

Arun responds:
"The Tamizh Alvars predate the arrival of Islam"

Manish notes:
"First thing first, I have been following Pragati for at least 3 years; it aspires to be nationalist but never rises beyond Nehruvian miasma. The quote below bears this out. This is the bane of all ''strategic'' thinking in India.

// The intermingling of Islam and Hinduism in the 12th century produced a profound evolution in Hinduism that remains salient today. //

-- there was no intermingling; Hinduism was mercilessly mauled. To term the rape of Hindustan as ''intermingling'' is the usual Nehruvian teachnique of lying while hiding behind pious platitudes, so as to avoind facing up to ugly realities. "

 December 8 (New Thread)
A plea for some help
Vish posts:
I wonder if some forum member, with accesses, could help me find a contact for Prof. (Mrs.) Bhaswati Sinha, who was (maybe still?) with the Department of Religious Studies in Punjabi University, Patiala.

I am coming here after doing my due, and in not getting anywhere.

Prof. Sinha, after a sustained labor of two decades published a very important treatise on Udayana-Acharya's work on the "Hindu Rational Enquiry into the Existence of God". It is a remarkable thesis in that Udayan talks of "Adrsta" (a kind of genetic notion still prevalent in a Hindu's way of life, but which everyone wants to summarily dismiss as non-scientific attaching tags such as 'chance', 'fate', 'bad luck' etc). Udayana-acharya  uses some powerful arguments to develop the notion of God as the cause for such an effect.

Prof. Sinha's elaborate work lays a powerful foundation to notions of "Poorva-Paksha" arguing against many of the notions advanced by Mimamsakas, Buddhists, Chaarvakas and the like (many thanks to BD for providing a resurrection of this long forgotten concept of the Dharmic way of  acquiring knowledge). She also provides a  terrific reference and examples on the powerful logic that was prevalent in India during those ancient ages.

Prof. Sinha did her MA from Calcutta University, and obtained her Ph.D. from Madras under Dr. TMP Mahadevan. In 1976 she was recommended by Mahadevan to join the Punjabi University to forge a research team there, and we believe that in some shape or form she still lends her services to them."

The thread below will be covered in depth in Part-2 of our series on this topic. Part-1 can be found in the June 2012 archive.
December 8 (New Thread)
Why the book American Veda is not called American Hinduism
Dear Friends Phil Goldberg is the author of the recently published American Veda. He explains why the word Hindu is not there. Book reviews can be read from...

December 9

Course on Indian Culture via MOOC
Alekshendra posts:
"Dear Dr. Malhotra,

This is my attempt to try to reach you. I have seen almost all of your lectures available on YouTube and the point made by you about the digestion of Indian Culture/History/Identity by the west.

In this regard, I would like to bring to your attention a new trending way of providing education online.
We have something called MOOCs (massively open online course) ( these links can give a better Idea:
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixE1YAlHnVU
2. http://www.ted.com/talks/daphne_koller_what_we_re_learning_from_online_education.html )

I was a part of one such MOOC offered by Prof. Keith Devlin of Stanford University and the strength of the class was whooping 61 thousand.

I was wondering over the possibility of creation of an Online Course offered on Coursera which focuses on Indian Culture, its content, it's distinctiveness from the west
( https://www.coursera.org/category/humanities) then the knowledge and message can be spread on a much larger scale. "

Rajiv responds:
"I would be delighted. But some others must do all the logistics, funding, tech work, marketing, etc. I can supply the content itself. Many similar ideas have come and gone, because when the workload gets tough our folks' enthusiasm fizzles out. The core team has to be FULL TIME as I am. This means they need funding. It cannot be pursued as a hobby as and when one feels like. There has to be professional accountability just like in one's job"


We end this summary with a very thought-provoking post by Rajiv Malhotra. This post has some profound messages worth reading more than once. We cannot say later that we weren't warned.
December 10

Hindu Dharma is more than just a matter of naming  
"1) Many of our people seem confused and think that being Hindu is merely a matter of calling oneself by that name. This approach might be called "definition by naming". So long as someone uses the right name, its ok. I find this shallow and troubling. I know many who call themselves Hindus, but who are in one or more of the following categories of counterproductive persons:

    Using Hindu community to boost their own political status or raise self importance to get some appointment, etc. Obsessed with occupying some position of importance for which they are utterly unqualified, thereby denying someone better qualified the chance to serve us better.
    Happy to get digested; promoting digestion out of naivete/stupidity; seeing this as a sign of glory: "We have arrived on the world stage".
    Confused with ideas of sameness, as substitute for having to study hard to understand what dharma is.

2) So if naming cannot be the criteria for defining who is Hindu, another option many use is history centrism. Hinduism defined as a specific history in a specific geography. I reject this as well. It limits Hinduism's claim of universalism by defining it this history centric way. For one thing, it excludes many segments and movements which have separate histories (e.g. Swaminarayanan) and/or do not consider any unique history to be the basis at all (e.g. Kashmir Shaivism, Tantra, Yoga). This approach has been used for political expediency - turning Hinduism into a Semitic religion of sorts. It becomes a claim that downgrades us...

3) Definition by distinct principles and practices. This the approach BD follows. Here, I found it important to combine both positive and negative principles. Examples of positive principles are karma-reincarnation and non-translatables that are specific and shared by the diversity of dharma approaches. Negative principles are what we reject. These negative principles are is critical to formulate carefully so as to have non-digestible differences. Examples of negative principles: I reject the claim that God's manifestation on earth has been limited via one son and no other way...

4) So the combination of positive-negative principles define us.

    The positive ones root and ground us, in a manner that all (or almost all) dharma groups can accept; hence we get a unified platform.
    The negative ones prevent us from getting digested into some other religion that is lurking around sending its "good cops" to entice and us and fool us. ..

5) The cunning tiger would like to separate the quills of the porcupine from the meat, reject the former and digest the latter. If the porcupine is foolish and accept the tiger's offer and drops his quills, he will surely get eaten and digested. The smart porcupine must NEVER SEPARATE THE QUILLS FROM THE REST OF HIS BODY. The positive-negative principles come as one package, never to get separated.

6) Swami Vivekananda's greatness is because he followed the above method #3. I have been reading through his collected works now for a second time lately, because I realized that the AAR panelists' attack on BD was based on those scholars' lifelong attacks  of Swami Vivekananda. The central problem these scholars face is any claim of unity of Hinduism. They know how to deal with #1 and #2 approaches. #1 is simply trivial and easy to appease such fools by simply using the Hindu name. #2 has been attacked as Hindutva and hence they have lots of weaponry and soldiers trained to start firing. But #3 is very tough for them. This is why they have worked since 1950 to undermine Swami Vivekananda as a champion of unity using #3 approach. Digestion is one of their most aggressive and successful methods because Hindus get fooled into thinking the tiger is paying them a compliment.

7) I have a list of top tier scholars who have made their careers attacking Swami Vivekananda and now I am writing a response to their attacks on BD. Their attacks on BD use the same approach as their attacks on Swami Vivekananda. Basically, anything philosophical (not political) that unifies dharma, is seen as dangerous. Why? Because such a foundation for unity is very robust as a foundation for nation-building. To destroy India they must destroy every viable method of its unity. Modern economic growth is insufficient to hold a massive diverse country together when it faces crises and catastrophes. Only a shared set of dharmic principles can hold it together. Hence, this academic cabal has targeted Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Gandhi, B.G. Tilak, Radhakrishnan, etc. - calling them "Neo-Hindus" to imply that they lack authenticity...

8) I welcome sincere and COMPETENT help in this latest project of mine.I am working on it non stop 7 days/wk amidst some personal challenges..."

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RMF Summary: Week of June 27 - July 3, 2011

June 27
European critiqyue of Aryan myth
N. S. Rajaram shares an update: Newsgram has carried by book review column on a European perspective on the Aryan myth here. From all this it is clear that India and Indians are the principal propagators of this monstrocity. 

The post below generated an extensive discussion. Click the link to read thru the feedback and comments.
June 27
Kerala school textbook propogates Marxist ideology
http://expressbuzz.com/states/kerala/kerala-school-textbook-propagates-marxism/279305.html THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Catholic Church in Kerala has taken serious...

June 28
{Breaking India} Caldwell: Transforming Linguistics into Ethnology
Excerpted with permission from Malhotra, Rajiv and Aravindan Neelakandan, "Breaking India: Western Interventions in Dravidian and Dalit Faultlines," Amaryllis...

June 28
Re: Islamic and Christian Inculturation
Ganesh seemingly sets the cat among the pigeons with the question:  
Now that this discussion has begun, here's the biggest spanner in the Cog wheel. How do we go about identifying ourselves? As "Hindu's" or as "Sindhu's" or just say we are the descendants of those who lived in Sindhu valley civilization. As per Swami Vivekananda's own admission the word "Sa" in Sindhu was replaced by "Ha" to become Hindu, for the Persian invaders didn't have "Sa" in their vocabulary. If one goes by this logic, then the very identity of many of us Hindu's, is an Islamic one.

Shaas responds:
"Although I like your strain of thinking, you cannot say that the word "Hindu", means your "identification" is islamic! Even as a "Hindu" you identify with the values of Sindhu Civilization, Vedic Civilization."

Utsav thinks aloud:
"I thought that it was the Pre- Islamic Persians who themselves were Proto- Vedic, who used the term "Hindu"."

N. S. Rajaram responds:
"Achaemenid emperor Darius in his Behistun inscription refers to his Indian satrapy as 'Hindush'"


Ganesh follows up:
"But none of our scriptures use the word Hindu. When you do homas and yagnas, mantras are chanted in praise of River Sindhu. "Sindhu nadhi theeray......." etc. River Sindhu is one of the 5 tributaries of the, what is today sadly called a mystical river, River Saraswati."


Followup thread #1
June 28
Antiquity and origin of the term 'Hindu'
I am attaching the copy of Antiquity and origin of the term 'Hindu' by Dr. Murlidhar H. Pahoja... and conclusions ...
In the Avesta, Hapta-Hindu is used for Sanskrit Sapta-Sindhu, the Avesta being dated variously between 5000-1000 B.C. This indicates that the term 'Hindu' is as old as the word 'Sindhu'. Sindhu is a Vedik term used in the Rigveda. And therefore, 'Hindu' is as ancient as the Rigveda.

Followup thread #2
Islamic and Christian inculturation
I am starting a new thread on this as it has moved from the original Kerala story. I appreciate the points raised by Kaajal on Muslim preachers not pretending...
  
This is another very important thread that deals with intellectually and factually countering Marxist revisionism that is rampant in India, which we summarize in depth below.
June 29
Countering marxist ideology through literary works.
Ganesh:
I hope there are enough Kerala literary writers who have managed to go the Sri. S L Bhyrappa's way, by coming out with a block buster book titled "Aavarana" that directly hits out at the subversive nature of Marxists and the so called pseudo-secular Gnanapeeta Prashasti winners like U R Ananthamurthy and his intellectual entourage. Aavarana, since it's launch in 2007, is into it's 26th re-print with close to 10,000 copies printed every time. So popular is the book that U R Ananthamurthy launched a failed book countering "Aavarna" titled "Aavaranada AnavaranNa".

http://aavaranavimarshe.blogspot.com/http://aavaranavimarshe.blogspot.com/

http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2007/06/02/sl-bhyrappa-versus-ur-anantha-murthy/

U R Ananathamurthy even confessed to being a Marxist ideology follower in the recently concluded Vishwa Kannada Sammelana held in Belagavi (Belgaum) between 11-13 March,2011.

followup response on 'Aavarana':
"are there any english translation available for Aavarana?"

Parts were translated & posted here:

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/12/06/the-best-of-aavarana/

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/12/20/best-of-avarana-2/

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2009/03/25/best-of-aavarana-3/

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2009/06/23/best-of-aavarana-4/

Book review:

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/06/14/book-review-aavarana/

mailmeys adds:
"Aavarana deals with the "real" history of India, and starts in the backdrop of ruins of Vijayanagar, the last great Hindu empire. Robert Sewell, had written a book on the empire titled -  "A Forgotten Empire : Vijayanagar". It has written based on the basis of Portuguese Chronicles and accounts of the Muslim historian Firistah. The text is available on gutenberg -

The history is fascinating, and it is also very informative - and lays bare all facts about Tughlaq, his empire, the tyranny endured by Hindus in his rule, his attacks on South India, the excesses of Bahamani Sultans, and subsequent history(has described by Firistah himself)

The success of Vijayanagar, Devaraya and Krishandevaraya's spectaular rule, and the factors leading to downfall of empire are also well written. Will post more resources on the real history of India and Indian empires."

atrineer provides another useful reference:
"For the inquisition at Goa, A.K.Priolkar's 'The Goa inquisition' is a good book. Like wise there is a book written by a french doctor named Dillon, who was a victim of the Goa Inquisition."

June 29
Re: Dictionary of Islam
*June 29, 2011* ** *The Dictionary of Islam *by Thomas Hughes, reprinted by RUPA is also a useful reference. It was written in the 19th C when people were not...
    
This thread generated a lot of discussion. Click the link below to read in full.
June 30 
Purva-Paksha
Kaajal asks: I do agree with Rajiv (and I certainly fall into that category too) that most Hindus lack in-depth knowledge of their own and other religious traditions. Some of this is apathy but much of it is also the inadequate opportunities for serious study of religion in India. Perhaps Rajiv (and others) could suggest ways in which some of us may become better educated and able to engage in discussions with Christians/Muslims etc. Short of going back to school (this may not be an option for many of us), is there a reading list that could be posted here for us. A 101 that would give us all the basic grounding in the theological issues that surface regularly. This list would be in addition of course to the books/articles already authored by Rajiv who tackles many of these issues. Thank you"


[the original newsgram link that is referred to below appears to be dead. Here is an alternative link].
June 30
"The Dangerous Idea of Martyrdom" - my new column
Rajiv Malhotra: Please read my latest column that addresses the religious foundations on which modern suicide bombing is based. I am implicating the much celebrated notion of "martyrdom" in the Abrahamic religions. There are too many martyrs being honored, and these have traditionally served as role models for the younger generation to emulate. This "hall of fame" of martyrs needs to be dismantled as part of peace movements. We should stop encouraging people to die for their religion in fights with others. The whole business of victim hood has also emerged out of this principle of martyrdom.

This is a very provocative piece, because it says things that are not polite, but such a public debate is necessary if we are to make progress.

Farzana disagrees and Rajiv counters:
Suicide Bombing has nothing to do with Abrahamic faiths or martyrdom , the practice was started by Sri Lankan Tamil Hindus, the LTTE. so how do you related it there?

Rajiv response: Not true. Please read my article to get the history.

There is a great book, "God against the Gods", by Jonathan Kirsch. He gives the history of early christianity's focus on encouraging martyrdom for gaining religious merit. These zealous christians were encouraged to provoke fights in
order to become martyrs. This kind of behavior was broadcast in order to encourage more persons. Such martyrs were celebrated, honored, and many of the thousand of saints were recognized primarily for their martyrdom. To fight infidels became seen as the highest sacrifice for God.

Please remember that Jesus is considered the first martyr ...

N. S. Rajaram recommends:
"Please see also *The Calcutta Quran Petition *by Sita Ram Goel. The very fact that a shahid (martyr) has the highest place reserved in the Islamic heaven-- higher even that a ghazi (Islamic warrior) shows that martyrdom is an ancient Islamic notion."    

George provides another reference:
"... Martyrdom is the indispensable fuel for the Abrahamic engine, without which it wouldn't have made much progress. For this very reason early Western Christianity was called the "Cult of the Saints". For more information read "The Cult of the Saints: Its Rise and Function in Latin Christianity (The Haskell Lectures on History of Religions)" by Peter Brown.

Martyrdom is the main ingredient in the conditioning cocktail of young men and women whose flesh and blood are more or less used as manure for the growth of Abrahamic religions... " 

Karigar comments on LTTE's suicide bombers and Hinduism:
"Also, as far as the LTTE being "hindu" is concerned, the cat has been out of that bag for a while, especially after it's leader Methodist Velupillai Pirabakaran's killing. The few hindus at the higher echelons of LTTE hierarchy had a bad time, many left.

Not to mention that Breaking India carries a substantial portion of how the Church nexus works in Sri Lanka with the displaced Tamils. The LTTE was given moral & ideological support by Christian churches is a well documented fact.
While there is a certain universal glamour to the concept of martyrdom (yes we honor Bhagat Singh, and have historically honored Abhimanyu amongst many other warrious who died fighting against odds), the key points made by Rajiv need to be considered:

(a) to provoke situations where the "martyr" then goes & dies for the "cause" and
(b) to theologically justify that as a major-tenet of the faith

-these are Abrahamic innovations and the least they can do is introspect on the facts. "

Anil wonders if Rajiv's killer was Hindu:
"Was the Tamil who killed Rajiv Gandhi a Hindu or a Christian? I assumed he was Hindu but some have said he was not. Does anyone know the truth?"

Rajiv Malhotra responds to Anil: 
Sonia G wanted the jailed woman in Rajiv G's murder case to be pardoned. Said she had repented (a Christian act) and deserved redemption. This was protested by many in opposition. I dont know what the courts decided...

Rajiv Malhotra adds:
"When evangelism appropriates the cult of glorifying martyrs, that is the deadly mixture we are talking about. If a tradition has no evangelical mandates from God then there is no large organized campaign to expand, and in this case a random martyr here and there does not amount to the same thing..."

Vedamohabir provides additional information:
"A major reason for the mothers' support for sons' martyrdom in Islam, is that the son can then intercede/mediate on their and several dozen relatives' behalf to facilitate entry into Paradise."

Rajiv Malhotra responds:
"Mormons also believe in a system of someone being able to
relocate dead relatives to heaven. A distant relative of mine who has converted to Mormonism is desperately trying to raise funds that he must donate to their church, and also trying to convince his parents to convert, because that opens the possibility to get all his forefathers moved to heaven waiting them for a great family reunion. This man is well educated, raised Hindu (the sameness/sufi kind) and was once a top executive at ATT."

Rajiv Malhotra provides additional references that you will have to click on your own :)
DISCLAIMER: Becoming known as a reader of the following works could be dangerous for your reputation.        
Rajiv Malhotra requests readers to post their comments on newsgram where the original article appeared and shares the reason why his amazing Sulekha articles that opened the eyes of so many Hindus around the world stopped appearing. The reasons are not surprising.
".... Besides I want to encourage that web site, which is today roughly the size and popularity where Sulekha.com was when I was invited to write there. I became Sulekha's most popular blogger by far, and sulekha turned into the most visited web site in its space. Unfortunately, thats when friends of Courtright-Doniger-Hawley lobbied to deny me equal access in a big fight that I had started there. I am told that advertisers in NY were called by certain members of SAJA, to threaten Sulekha with loss of sponsorship if they continued to let me express my opinions. Thats when Sulekha did its u-turn. Not only did they do nasty things that were one-sided, they also stopped responding to all my emails. Many mutual friends tried on my behalf but same results. Lately they are changing again and want my writings back. But this time around I decided that we need many such outlets, not just one or two. Hence, Newsgram would be a good one to help build up.

I have just started writing what will turn out to be an enormous number of challenges to the prevailing discourse. This will trouble many persons, which I wish could be avoided. But in the interest of truth, I have to accept their anger as collateral damage. (Caution: The Truth will ultimately set you free; but in meanwhile it might also piss you off!)..."

Another followup thread

Re: "The Dangerous Idea of Martyrdom" - LTTE anti-Hindu

LTTE leadership was strongly anti-Hindu beginning with its leader Prabhakaran. It was financed and inspired by Christian missionaries. It is only the latest in...


July 1
Students convert to bag B.Ed. seats
*Students convert to bag B.Ed. seats - From TOI Archives* 30/06/2011 13:55:52 ...

July 1
Fw: [breakingindia] Need advice on how to dialog with an elite who h
A discussion with a Roman Catholic to whom I said that I deeply respected Jesus as an ethical figure. So did Gandhiji who said that the Sermon on the Mount...

July 1
{Breaking India} A Conspiracy Theory is Born: Cunning Aryan Brahmins
Excerpted with permission from Malhotra, Rajiv and Aravindan Neelakandan, "Breaking India: Western Interventions in Dravidian and Dalit Faultlines,"...
 
July 1
Interesting combination of carnatic music and christianity
See the message below from a gentleman who also teaches in our Temple weekend Hindu school. He received a copy of "Breaking India" a few weeks back.

July 2
The Myth of St. Thomas Matyrdom
An article in Deccan Herald, with the church letter propagating the myth. ...
  
July 2
Rajesh Rao: A Rosetta Stone for the Indus script
A TED talk: Rajesh Rao: A Rosetta Stone for the Indus script ...

July 3
Video: US Congress testimony against India's "persecution" of Christ
... Just as you explained during your talk at Cerittos Library in Los Angeles, how a fictitious story from some small Christian source in Bharat is churned & turned around to form this fictitious Big foot monster that "Christians/Muslims are being persecuted by blood thirsty Hindus"; here is an example of it.
In this video, Florida Republican HouseRep Cliff Stearns is speaking on floor of US Congress about some alleged attack on Christians & Evangelists by "Hindu extremists" ....



July 3
Re: "The Dangerous Idea of Martyrdom" - and slavery
N S Rajaram: I would also recommend the 8 volume magnum opus History of India as Told by India's Own Historians compiled by Eliot and Dowson. It is available from D.K. Publishers of New Delhi.

Rajiv response: 
the above book is the one I refer to in my post as the final item. Now Marxist historians try to cover for Islam by saying that this was british propaganda

Manas responds to a book request:
"Volume 6 available here:
In the top right corner, there is a download link.

 Vishal provides another option for interested readers:
"All 8 volumes can be dowloaded as Word docs from scribd.com"
[here's the link]

July 3
{Breaking India} Propagation of ˜ Dravidian Christianity - 2000 - 20
Excerpted with permission from Malhotra, Rajiv and Aravindan Neelakandan, "Breaking India: Western Interventions in Dravidian and Dalit Faultlines," Amaryllis...
  
July 3 
Islamic 'evangelicalism' - Try a religion for a month!!!
'The Blood Foundation', a NGO in Thailand runs two unique programs as part of '*promoting positive intercultural experiences*', *'**Monk for a Month' *and...

July 3
Breaking India - continued activities in Bengaluru
I was in for a pleasant surprise, yesterday, when I dropped in on Mr. K.Chandrasekhar in Banashankari, famed chronicler of the life and times of U.G....
 
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