Forum member's experience as a Hindu professor in a Christian college in TN

A newly inducted member to the discussion group had a very heart breaking story to relate regarding her experiences as a Hindu professor of English in a Christian college in Madurai, Tamil Nadu.

We reproduce here her exact words.

1. As a Prof of English in a Catholic College experienced innumerable verbal attacks, gestures of disapproval and arrogant remarks from colleagues: a. Human Rights class open attack on Brahmins - "Brahmins only used to molest Dalits."

2. When I had a chat on Whats app with my student - a journalist currently with Indian Express - I criticized her for using the term "saffron bulls" and I told her not to denigrate that noble term which symbolizes sacrifice. I referred to noble works of Swami Vivekananda. From an unknown activist I had wordy dual who condemned Swami Vivekananda as Castetist and he said he too had done nothing for the Dalits. I had to argue through the night. I showed him how DMK has done only ethnic cleansing of the Brahmins and not improved the situation of the Dalits. But he was not convinced. 

 
3. I had an opportunity to get a Dalit girl married in my own house (to avoid a critical situation about 8 months back.) I had priest in my house (a Catholic priest who was not happy about the turn of events for my gesture broke their myth of Brahmin brutality against the Dalits) But openly he abused the Hindu gods and our faith. (Whom are you going to see when you reach Heaven. Your religion confuses you with so many Gods).

4. I happened to wear the label Brahmin and though I achieved a great deal in college there was always a step motherly treatment. I was denied FIP . ( I had to pursue my Ph.D without any leave benefits. I had to exhaust all my personal leave.)

5. I have received threat calls in college. When I mentioned the term Taliban (an announcement in the The Hindu- about 25 years back) I had an anonymous call threatening me. (At that time the nuns had to awareness- I am still waiting to talk to that nun - for recently 60 odd Christians were killed in Pakistan during Easter by Taliban.)

6. Conversion into Christianity is rampant as Sri Rajivji has pointed out now it is the Pentecosts. My own Prof. of Tamil has been hounding a Brahmin Prof (both retired) with constant e mailing saying that she would not reach Heaven if does not become a Christian.

7. I read the Scriptures daily. so they have branded that I am R.S.S. and a Hindutva. Only a Christian and a Muslim has the right in India to be religious. If I defend Hinduism I have always been under attack.

I saved my maid a refugee from Sri Lanka from being converted.Her family went through horrible pressure from a local Christian group.

8. I hear that they woo the people with newer and newer techniques. Especially lower class in the villages. Vegetables are given on Sundays.

I can go on. I used to be so badly treated that in 2006 I had a psychological and neurological disorder. I did not wish to continue there. But when they sensed that my leaving the institution would lead to criticism (for I am a popular teacher a favourite among students) they begged me to come back.

I have medical records and service records to prove that one whole year I was going through depression. I could not go to any Human rights org. 

 
The funniest thing is they would easily advice me to forgive. The tactics is they would bring the Bible and say forgive.

I am an African American and American studies scholar. I know all about AF/Am litt. Now there is a huge attempt to create a non existent Dalit literature, The voice is Ms. Meena Kandasamy. She has declared that she has embraced "Dalit" ism I wonder what she means by it. The African Americans have been pouring out their misery ever since they set foot on American soil in the 17 the century. I do not understand how on earth they can achieve a manufactured literature in a short period. I read Kanch Illiya's poem attacking the Brahmins.

I feel a systematic, serious confrontation of all these charges with facts must be done soon enough.

Almost all the U.G.C. sponsored conferences have been pro - Dalit and Brahmin bashing only I have been attending many.

Thanks for your time. If I need to elaborate on any of the experiences I am willing to.

I tried introducing Yoga in the campus about five years back with the help of a Hindu called Yoga master Subramanian.

But last year "Mindful Meditation" was introduced by a Priest much to the disappointment of Christians themselves and they laughed at it calling Mindless meditation. The first thing the students were asked to buy was a pillow.

Last year 2015 I was forced to organize a National Conference on Human Rights Issues in Literature and Sociology. Please follow the activities of a person called Dr. Balakrishnan of Roots - a NGO - I am sure a Christian group is supporting him.

During the Key note address he attacked Hindu belief systems and mocked at the idea of going to temples. As I am heading the Dept. I could not openly accuse him. But I boycotted the publication of papers. He calls himself Academic Event manager. Conducts a lot of programmes for the youth. He is a vocal Anti Brahmin advocate and so he along with five members including the so called Brahmin principal called Dr. Murali were chucked out of the local college called The Madura College. You could verify info.

More specifically He is part of the Brahmin versus Dalit Narrative -- Breaking India force.

But Roots is doing academic programme focusing on Dalits and I am sure it a Breaking India racket. You could probe. This org. is in Madurai. It is a one man army with support from a Christian called Periera. (Not sure of the spelling.) They have a press called Shanlax. Almost all the papers are eulogizing the works by Bama a Dalit writer who is compared with African American Writers. I get angry by these comparative studies. But I am always at a loss.

I have guided Ph.D scholars in this area and still have about 9 students. I can never support the argument that Dalits suffered like the African American slaves. By the way I have been part of the U.S. State sponsored International Visitor's Program.. Met writers like James Alan Mc Pherson.

I live in an area called Vel Murugan Nagar. There is a priest called Dudley Thangiah in this area who is well known for conversion. Now it is all a stealthy deal. He does not rechristen them. They believers have Hindu names but attend church. What he does is one influential member in the family is converted and the rest are swept in.

I see a New Prayer Tower in Nehru Nagar an adjacent colony. I shall get more details. Madurai is full of prayer houses not formal churches where Dalit conversions are rampant.
The caste politics is another reason for conversion.

My Nadar friend tells me her entire family is broken to pieces because of conversion. They are owners of Flour mill called Mayil Brand. Excepting the eldest son's family all are converted. Conversion and breaking of Hindu families in Virudhunagar has been going on for 3 to 4 decades now.

Now Southern Tamil Nadu - Ramnad belt is fully Muslim area. Illaiangudi and surrounding areas mini Pakistan. Tanjore Kumbakonam Muslim concentration. Kanyakumari Thirunelvelli are all Christian belts. Now Madurai is infested with Evangelical movements.

There is British priest working near Nagamalai Pudhukptai doing conversion. Pentecosts openly declare that they can make a living doing Evangelical work. Money is pumped in from the West for sure.

There are open attacks on Ramayan in colleges like Lady Doak where priest come and give lectures on these Scriptures mocking them.

There is Church called First Assemble of God and there is more recent one on Vaigai river bed near Fatima college (Dindigul Road) an org. from Ceylon doing a lot of Conversions.

Please appoint someone to enter into these churches and record their sermons.

In Dhargas there is an open order that none should stop with a single child. Must have 5 or 4 children. But Shakshi Maharaj of U.P. was heavily criticized by the media NDTV is vocal in supporting Muslims and Christians. That one channel is enough to Break India.

All their programs are attacking Modi. Similarly The Hindu is another Anti Hindu paper which exaggerates anything against the Minorities and no violence against Majority community ever gets reported.

There must be a Ban on Conversion soon. And derecognize all those who got converted in the last ten years.

Sheldon Pollock's 'Aestheticization of Power' Targets Tamil Pallavas

(shared by HemaC, forum member. Comment by Rajiv Malhotra at the end of this post)
 
Dear All,

Literary, Arts and Heritage Forum
NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ADVANCED STUDIES
Indian Institute of Science Campus,
Bengaluru - 560 012

is pleased to invite you to a talk on

“The Aesthetics of Power: Representations of Kingship within the Early Pallava Imperium”

By

​​Mekhola Gomes
Doctoral Scholar, Centre for Historical Studies,
Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi

Chairperson : Naresh Keerthi, NIAS

Date:               Monday, 21st March, 2016
Time:               4:30 pm
Venue:             Lecture Hall, NIAS

Abstract:   The period of Pallava rule in Tamil Nadu was a dynamic time in South Indian history, with innovations in several spheres. These included the construction of cave-shrines, structural temples, creation of new iconographies, and inscriptional encomiums. In this talk, I attend to the changing aesthetics of power in the Pallava kingdom through a juxtaposition of texts and images. Starting the 4th century CE, inscriptional genealogies praised Pallava kings in innovative ways. These innovations were elaborated within and through the construction of royal cave-shrines and structural temples beginning the 7th century CE.  Through inscriptional  panegyrics, the construction of cave-shrines, and structural temples, the Pallavas inaugurated a new aesthetics of power. This emergent aesthetics of power was created within and through a larger field of representation. I will compare representational strategies of kingship within inscriptions of the Early Pallavas with visual delineations of power in rock-cut cave- shrines and stone temples.  I suggest that the Pallavas created a new aesthetics of power in early south India, through both the textual and visual and it is only through the interpretation of text and image together that we can fully appreciate the emergence of this new aesthetic.

About the Speaker: Mekhola Gomes is a doctoral scholar in early Indian history at the Centre for Historical Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Her thesis, explores representations and practices of political power in the Deccan, between the 3rd and 8th centuries CE. She is co-editing a forthcoming volume on the epigraphical (re)turn in the study of ancient Indian history.

* * * * * * * *

All are cordially invited

For further information, please contact. Naresh Keerthi


K S Rama Krishna

--
N.I.A.S., I.I.Sc Campus
Bengaluru 560012
Ph:   2218 5000
Fax: 2218 5028
Email:

Rajiv Malhotra: Thanks for this post. It shows my claim that Pollock's thesis has spread far and wide, getting installed deep into our intellectual institutions. Yet our side has very few IKs bothering to read my response, as that entails serious study. Also, note that NIAS did not want to invite me whereas the Pollock side gets hosted there. I would love to debate this fellow whose job seems to be to implement Pollock's theory by supplying Indian examples.

RMF Summary: Week of March 23 - 29, 2013

March 24 (continuing discussion)
Pope Francis calls for "respect" for all religions
Is it the first time that a pope said something like this? If true Rajivji's stand on mutual respect is accepted:Pope Francis calls for 'respect...

Tariyal comments: "... pope will never give equal respect to the Dharmic people. This is because of the fundamental dogma of Christianity that man is a born sinner and he or she can only be saved through Jesus Christ. Also the old testament forbids worshipping of false gods. To give equal respect to us will mean they would not be Christians any more. So an avowed Christian respecting our Dharmic traditions is an oxymoron. Cannot happen. Can only happen if the person will give up the core dogma, which means he or she is not a Christian anymore."

Alex responds: "Reg. [] Tariyal's following comments, I would like to, as a Christian respectfully offer the following comments:

"A true Christian especially a pope will never give equal respect to the Dharmic people."

While I do not know whether the new Pope is hypocritical or not when he spoke about respecting all faiths, but I do know that Dr. Tariyal is factually
incorrect when he says that a "true Christian will never give equal respect to the Dharmic people".

There are hundreds of millions of "true" Christians all over the world, who do take seriously the admonitions of Jesus of Nazareth to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" & "love thy neighbor as thyself". They are all required to give equal respect to followers of all faiths, Dharmic religions included.

.... Jesus was preaching to the Jews in the role of a Rabbi who was trying to reform the Jewish religion. He did not "establish" Christianity. His followers established that faith which got interpreted in many different ways and
generated many sects of Christianity, just as it happened in all religions including Sanatana Dharma.

.... Those statements of Dr. Tariyal, I submit are based on his own interpretation of Christianity. And, it is very unfortunate that Dr.Tariyal has been too quick to
generalize without perhaps having interacted with true followers of the tenets of Jesus who value more than anything, first, the golden rule of do unto others
as you would have them do unto you and second,to love thy neighbor as thyself.

Such Christians are in the millions and so are many millions in the Dharmic faiths who do not hold []Tariyal's views nor are they as vehement as he is in
asserting as to who is a Christian and who is not.

Belief in God is a deeply personal matter and respecting one's neighbor requires the humility not to be judgmental in proclaiming who is a true follower of one religion or another. That is best left to the believer and his or her
conscience.

Not withstanding Dr.Tariyal's assertion, I as a follower of the tenets of Jesus of Nazareth, do respect and love people of all faiths and I also respect and love those who profess no faith in God. ..."

Rajiv comment: ... So how do I recommend reconciling these views?

Though Tariyal ji means well, I find that most Hindus lack adequate understanding of Christianity, and hence they conflate too many things into simplistic categories. To be able to discuss with credibility in well-informed
forums, Hindus must learn the important differences among each of the following aspects of Christianity:

1) Jesus' own utterances.
2) Bible as a collection of utterances by many voices of which Jesus is just one. (This means Bible cannot be seen as shruti, but evaluated as smriti - like a purana perhaps.) Pls note that there are many persons who reject Bible as
literal word while worshiping Jesus.
3) Theologies formulated by numerous persons since Jesus onwards.
4) Belief systems of the Catholic Church.
5) Belief systems of the Eastern Orthodox Church. (Alex belongs here.)
6) Belief systems of the mainline Protestant Churches.
7) Belief systems of the non-mainline Protestants - pentacostals, mormons, etc.
8) Philosophies of numerous Christian rebels today, who in turn are also having many diverse views amongst themselves...

It is better to articulate an issue, and invite the other party to respond with a stand. Let each Christian thus be able to decide for himself where he stands.

In this spirit. I request Alex to inform us of his stand (which may have nothing to do with some institutional "Christianity" per se) on the Nicene Creed as it
relates to Hindu tenets. Specifically:
- does he accept it literally or metaphorically?
- what is the status of Hindu avataras, deities such as Shiva, Devi, etc?
- how does he see principles like karma-reincarnation?
- what is his position on conversions being done in India?"

Maria adds:
"Alex is right that there are millions of ‘respectful’ Christians who love Jesus and would never convert anyone. However, that is not the point.  Christianity and Islam (and each sect of them) claim that they are the only true faith. They indoctrinate their flock. Before each mentioning of “Catholic Church” in Germany, there was the prefix “alleinseligmachende”, which means “which can alone give salvation”. .....Most Christians at least in Europe, would not condone conversion; in fact, many do not even believe that conversion is still happening today.

The point is that the different Churches are on a conversion spree in India and probably in many other places, too. So if the Pope wants to give respect, he cannot possibly condone trying by hook and crook (that’s what happens) to convert Hindus. He would have to make an announcement to this effect if he was sincere..."



Alex responds to Rajiv:
"...my article on Proselytization in India which was subsequently published in Sulekha. Its link is provided below. .... recommend that they read the last page where I have sought the inclusion of a prohibition against Proselytization in the UN's Declaration of Human Rights. The link below will answer the last item on your list, viz., my position on religious conversions in India.

... Reg. Nicene Creed, though my Church believes in the Nicene Creed (431 CE) I do not! The Church has every right to ex-communicate me if it chooses to do so for
that... But, there are far too many like me who do not subscribe to everything that the Church demands. I also do not believe as many others also do not, that the Bible is inerrant. Thank God, the Eastern Orthodox Churches do not believe in the infallibility of their Patriarchs! For me, the Jefferson's Bible is quite sufficient for my understanding of the teachings of Jesus.

Reg. Hindu avatars, deities, Shiva, Devi etc…the way I understand avatars is that they are different manifestations of the transcendent God...

For me, Shiva is the Supreme God of Shaivites, also called Mahadeva. Devi (if you mean Shiva's consort Parvati) is the Supreme manifestation of Shakti which
showers unconditional love on all her children. Interestingly, in the Eastern Orthodox Christianity, the Holy Spirit is called Shekinah (feminine) as is the case in Judaism. Shekinah is also endowed with the power of showering unconditional love on all of `creation".

Reg. Karma, I do not see any contradiction between that concept in Sanatana Dharma and orthodox Christianity. For e.g., In Galatians (6:7) it is stated that "For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap". I also believe that one does not have to wait for the next birth to reap the outcomes of one's action.

Reg. Reincarnation, there is some evidence in the Bible, that the Jews also believed in reincarnation. For e.g. In Matthew 11:14, Jesus speculated that John the Baptist could be Elijah, the Old Testament prophet reincarnated! In John 9:2, some disciples of Jesus brought a blind man to be healed by Jesus and asked Jesus, "whose sin is this, this man's or his parent's?" I tend to believe in both more than I reject them outright. But, in my Eastern Orthodox Church, both Karma and Reincarnation are not accepted.

..While all religions preach that in one form or another, it is unfortunate that both the golden rule of treating others as you would like to be treated and being a true and loving neighbor are both breached more often than they are followed. ... I am an American of Christian faith and
a Hindu by culture. That self-identification is my privilege and not of the Church or any one else for that matter."

Rajiv comment: I am glad Alex accepted the invite to respond to questions. This egroup should be a forum for respectful discussions even when we disagree. Let
us maintain that tone and continue the thread. "

Maria asks Alex:

"... intrigued why you still identify as a Christian, even though you (like me) fall clearly into the ‘heretics’ category and if we had lived a few centuries earlier, our lives would have been in danger. I may oversimplify again (my forte, Rajivji), but in my view whatever is good and helpful in Christianity is there already since long in Hindu Dharma (and there is even much much more that is helpful) and what is bad and divisive in Christianity, both of us have rejected. But since there is no pick and choose option in Christianity, both of us are basically not Christians anymore.

... could you imagine considering yourself a Hindu by culture who has Jesus as his Ishta devata? Keeping all songs, prayers, rituals, but considering him as one among many different ‘ways’ that can lead to the truth? ...."

Alex answers:

".....there is no religion that has all its followers adhering to everything that religions demand or their "dogmas" dictate. Sanatana Dharma is no exception to this.

All faiths, including Christianity and its different denominations have their own "dogmas". ... rational human beings think for themselves as to what is sensible and what is not for them to maintain their relationship with their understanding of "God".

In fact, I know that even among Christians (as in other faiths) there are agnostics who still go to their places of worship for social reasons or as an "insurance" against their "wrong bets"! ...

Do all Sanatana Dharmis, be they Shaivites, Vaishnavites, Lingayats, or whatever, do they follow all of their respective "creedal" requirements? No, they do not. If one were to apply your logic, they should not consider themselves Sanatana Dharmis. (I make a distinction between Hinduism which is a culture of the Indian subcontinent and Sanatana Dharma which is the religion of the large majority of the people of the Indian subcontinent.)

I would also venture to say that the large majority of most of the World's Religions do not follow everything that their respective religions proclaim as their "dogmas". As to your assertion, that there is no "pick and choose" option in Christianity, I submit that you are in error, that is if you have observed the behavior of "practicing Christians". For example, this is the season of Lent. Do you really believe that all "practicing" Christians observe fasting and or avoid eating meat, fish etc?

Finally, why I remain a Christian you ask... I find that the more I read Advaita Vedanta, the more congruence I find between the seminal sayings of Jesus and what I find in Vedanta. I see my religious identity and other identities as "my" labels and I see no reason to change any of them: I am an Indian by birth, American by naturalization, Christian by faith and Hindu by culture. ... I am not ashamed of any of my identities, nor will I ever consider courteous for anyone else to define the "purity" of my faith or challenge the legitimacy of any of my identities since I have earned them all by legitimate and rational means. ..." 

tvikhanas asks Alex:

" 1. You admit that Bible is fallible but at the same time you feel compelled to see traces of karma and reincarnation in Bible (a position contradicting the
official position). Why do you feel the need to find these ideas in Bible?

2. You say you are culturally a Hindu. What does it translate to in practice? How do we prevent main stream predatory churches from using that as a shield for
inculturation?

3. Is it even possible to separate Hindu thought into "cultural" and "religious" buckets? These concepts like "secularism" evolved in an different milleu and cannot be applied so easily to India. As an organically evolving entity, every aspect of Indic "culture" is tied to "religion"; there is no clean demarcation.
Thus, the reason for putting bindi/tilak is not merely cultural or fashion.

4. Through the examples of narrow minded Hindus you claim that even the so called followers of Dharma are not really following it and that one can follow Dharma even though one doesn't belong to the traditional schools. This I think every true follower of Dharma will grant: there are no clubs to belong to be "dharmic". But the reverse is not true. If you belong to some clubs you will be
prevented from following (or at least it will be very hard) Dharma. ...Does that bother you?

5. As you pointed out there are narrow minded individuals among Hindus as well and as you say that's human nature. The question is are these lower impulses
empowered by the religion. In case of Hinduism there is no sanction for them. There is no main stream text or acharya that sanctions narrow minded sectarianism and vast majority freely visit all temples. The same is not true
for Christianity and Islam which explicitly exploit the lowest fears & drives in their quest for domination. And the fruits of these religions can be seen in their core followers. " 

Surya responds to Alex:

"...You most certainly do not have to justify your faith to anyone. You do not have to justify or feel compelled to explain and defend your faith in Jesus as your savior. It is entirely your choice and you choice will be respected on this board because you have respected the freedom and
choice of those who follow Dharma traditions. That is the only way for mutual respect.

You see the sad predicament though. When you take proselytization and digestion out, there is no need to fight, be on the offensive. Restraint in your comments as you fend off attacks shows that.

Dharma traditions face the same. Unfortunately, the digesting or proselytizing religions (or sects) do not relent. They see the failure of the other side to respond as an opportunity to go for a kill. To be clear, digestion also exists in the secular variant of Western Universalism which is focused on hegemony and civilizational intolerance. Proselytization and digestion are offensive,
intolerant, and disrespectful.

.....Unfortunately, many Christians of Indian descent are becoming increasingly this way too. Hopefully, forum members read your comments and see you in a different light." 

Rajiv responds:

"I agree with Surya below that we should close this thread and it has served a good purpose. My own conclusions are:
- Alex is not required to defend all Christians or the Church, when he has already written extensively against proselytizing. When a man distances himself from some institution, its silly asking him to defend that institution or blame him for the conduct of other members.
- Given the above, he is only explaining his own PERSONAL faith, and the rest is rendered irrelevant.
- We need to encourage more Christians to be like him, i.e. challenge from within that system of belief.
- Asking him to become like us means having one less Christian ally and just one more Hindu.
- Having said all this, I want to now clarify: Alex's "sameness" is from Christianity leading towards Hinduism. I WOULD NOT ENCOURAGE THE REVERSE DIRECTION, I.E. WHERE HINDUS ADVOCATE SAMENESS TOWARDS CHRISTIANITY. Yes, this is a double standard but I am prepared to defend it. While Christians are well
grounded in identity based on history-centrism, most Hindus are confused/morons. Therefore, advocating sameness is ill-advised now. Playing the game of diplomacy towards other faiths requires expertise that is well over the heads of most Hindus, incl most Hindu leaders. So its best avoided until we first achieve a
much higher standard of identity formation. That is the goal for BD to initiate." 

Arun comments:

"In the spirit of Being Different, we would recognize and appreciate the many strains of Christianity, and know that some of them do live with mutual respect with us; and some of them don't. (This is a matter of lived experience, and not a matter that can be decided by theory.)

Further, we do not grant the followers of the intolerant varieties of Christianity the power to decide "who is a true Christian"? They can make their judgment, we are not obliged to accept it.

Incidentally, we make the same mistake with Islam - we implicitly or explicitly agree with the fundamentalists that they own the definition of "who is a true Muslim? " .." 

Anantha asks:

"I've heard a lot of people say "I'm culturally Hindu but Christian by religion". However, it strikes me as extremely telling that I have never heard anyone say "I'm culturally Christian but Hindu by religion". ... is it indeed possible to be "Christian by culture and Hindu by religion"? If yes, then what does living such a life entail?" 

Surya responds to Anantha's question:

"Rajivji's concepts of integral and synthetic unity explain your questions.

For Dharma traditions culture is not separate from their traditions.  Much has been written on this forum on how music, dance, and other art forms are integral to Dharma traditions. Thus, one cannot separate "religion" from "culture" with Dharma traditions.  A Hindu is confused to hear such statements because, even unknowingly, such integral unity is deep rooted.   

Ravi Zachariah, a Christian apologist, said that when other religions were absorbed into Christianity only their culture was retained in Christianity.  He uses this to explain to new converts to drop their "religion" but keep the culture if they want.  Rajivji calls this synthetic unity which could be for any number of reasons including opportunistic maneuvering.  In India, this is going on in the name of inculturation.

Rajivji explains that inculturation of integral aspects of Dharma is really digestion.  Digestion has happened before.  Pagan religions disappeared but the "Christmas tree" has been digested and still survives.

Rajivji has explained as "Himsa" when something integral such as Bharatanatyam is being separated out and treated as secular art form.  A Hindu is flabbergasted to see Jesus mudras in Bharatanatyam not because Christianity will gain social acceptance but because what is integral to Dharma has  been split asunder."

 

Venkat notes:

"This seems to a case of moderate peaceful Christians vs fundamentalist conversion prone Christians, in this case also good cop vs bad cop.

In India at least, we seldom hear the voices of such moderate peaceful Christians talking against conversions, let alone against the fundamentalists and the harm they are doing to society..."

 

Rajiv comment: Agreed.

So can we encourage some good cops to break ranks and publicly turn hostile against the proselytizing bad cops? I have seen Alex do just that since the past 2 decades.

This INTERNAL dissent from within Christianity is helpful to us, and we must encourage this. We are not strong enough in the kurukshetra by ourselves to fight the might of well-entrenched powerful nexuses, and we do need allies. "

 

Wadhwa asks:

".... I would also like to know  stand of Mr.Alex on the following point: 

 

"Shall mere faith in Christ lead to canceling  or negating  ones sins or bad karmas"? 

 

Here I would like to add that in a 3 day debate between Swami Dayanand Saraswati and  Dr.T.J. Scott(a Christian missionary), in August 1879, at Barilly one of the subjects discussed was: 'Can sins be pardoned through Grace or repentence?'  The stand of Swamji was that mere faith in Christ cannot help any one in undoing the effect of ones sins or bad karmas. He said that inevitably, every one gets punishment or reward as per each  deed or karma."

 

Alex responds:

"As to your question reg. "mere faith in Christ alone lead to canceling one's sins/karma etc".

My answer is NO. And, I believe that I can find you support in the New Testament (see: James 2:20., "O vain man, faith without works is dead".) But, please read
the verses above to get the context of my assertion.

I will hasten to add that there are passages elsewhere in the Bible where faith alone will suffice!

In the scriptures of all the world's major faiths, one can find contradictions in texts and the beliefs of its followers. Sanatana Dharma is no exception to this.

May I ask you two questions to highlight this point: 1)why do millions of followers of Sanatana Dharma dip in the Ganges River during Kumbh Mela and believe that by doing so their sins will be forgiven and at least some of their bad karma can be wiped out?

2) Why does the most pluralistic of all faiths that I know and admire greatly (Sanatana Dharma)have sects like Lingayats who shun Krishna/Vishnu and Ayyangars
who shun the worship of Shiva? In my neighborhood, I was glad to see the construction of a Shiva-Vishnu temple, but soon after its construction,the south
Indians Shaivites split off and constructed a Murugan Temple (brother of Ganesh) within the stone throw of the Shiva-Vishnu temple!

All faiths have human failings being superimposed on their respective belief systems. Therefore, in my humble opinion, it is counter-productive to throw stones at the belief systems of others. Worse still is the penchant of some to judge others as to who is a true Christian, true Muslim or true follower of Sanatana Dharma. A fully evolved follower of any faith will know that it is the
height of ignorance to judge another person's purity of faith.

Unlike others who are ridden with "avidya" I would dare not brand or call them as being not "true followers" of Sanatana Dharma because my common code of ethics (not just my faith) has taught me not to judge another's faith or lack of it. If you have the time, please answer my question. Thanks." 

Tariyal responds:

"I agree with the comments of Alex. However, he is defining Christians in his own convenient way. As a follower of teaching of Christ he is correct that millions of people may follow what he follows as a person, and he has elected to call himself a Christian. However, the meaning of Christian as defined by the current Churches, be it Catholic or the various Protestant ones requires that the person believe in the central dogma of Christianity....

.. In summary I do not disagree with the basic sense of Comments by Alex, but I define a true Christian as a follower of the accepted Christian Dogma. And with that Caveat I stand by my comments."

 

Alex responds:

".... The Baptists, Mormons, Pentecostals, Jehovah's witnesses, Church of Christ, & Seventh Day Adventists do not accept the Nicene Creed. A few of these sects do not believe in the Trinity as well. They also call themselves Christians.

Majority of Eastern Orthodox scholars accept inclusivism. While holding the view to the centrality of Christ for themselves,they acknowledge that salvation
can be found outside of Christianity. And, I must add that they do not proselytize.

Contrary to your assertion, there is no accepted dogma to subscribe to for anyone to call himself/herself as a true Christian. It is between the follower of that faith and his conscience to determine as to whether he or she is being
true to his/her ishta Devata.

I would never ever dare to judge you or assert that you are not behaving as a true follower of Sanatana Dharma because of your expressed eagerness to judge
others like me, since that can be construed as due to avidya, a common failing of the human condition brought about by one's inability to subordinate one's ego.

..... By the way, if you would google the World Council of Churches (WCC), and query "salvification outside the church" you will be surprised to find that there are many other Christian sects (besides mine) which concede that there are indeed other faith systems by which a human being can find salvation. Unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church is not yet a full member of the WCC. Hope Pope Francis will join that organization which also has come out against proselytization, but not to the extent that I would like WCC to do...." 

March 25
Saket asks: In Hindu traditions the practice is to cremate the body after death. However I have observed that when a human is less than one year old that is navjat , in Hindu traditions he is buried.  Can someone highlight why this minor exception is made in case of navjat?  

Devendra responds:

"Hindu traditions do have reasons behind their rituals. Death ceremony is also considered an important ritual. One reason behind burial of a child,as opposed to cremation,upon his death is that he has not yet developed attachment to his body,so there is no need to destroy it by cremation..."

Vishwa adds:

"Do note that the pre-Vedic Indus Valley civilization had many burial grounds. Burial was quite a common practice in that civilization." 

KK comments:

"For infants and Sanyasis and Saints, there is no unfulfilled/pending Karma that might attract the 'Jeeva' to hover around the dead body, hence no harm in burying. In the case of Sant-Mahaatmaas, even their 'dead' body helps the followers by inspiring duty/devotion.

For all others, merging with Pancha Bhootas/the last Yaaga is one thing as also the possibility that if they are unable to let go of their Naama-Roopa even after physical death burning on a pyre might ensure an easier onward journey.....nothing to 'go back to'
Pregnant women are also not cremated,... " 

Ashok adds: "......perhaps we ought to look at ourselves a bit to see why is it that Hindus convert. Could it be that we do treat some if our own less favourably and they do not feel supported?

As Rajiv ji has earlier pointed out, there are two levels of religion. One consists of those like me who just practice it (and are the vast majority, the followers) and those that deal with it at a higher level and are in a position to discuss issues with their counterparts in other religions. These would be our Akhara leaders, our saints, our Shankaracharyas and our intellectuals like Rajiv ji. As a 'follower' I would only interact with 'followers' of other religions. Anyway, coming back to the point, today I feel betrayed by those in power in my own religion. And I am neither the oppressed nor financially challenged. 

Perhaps we need to look at ourselves and discuss ways of supporting our oppressed brethren in addition to of course supporting our intellectuals with our voice thoughts,minds and pockets. "

[there are some personal and poignant discussions here that are left out].

 

 

March 27

Interesting paper questioning Western Universalism in Psychology
Alakshendra shares: I just came across this interesting paper which states that broad claims about human psychology and behaviour based on narrow samples from Western societies are regularly published and questions the practise. It makes a very interesting read. Specially the term WEIRD (Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic) used for the folks of the west ...

Below is a part of the paper which you might like:
************************************
Research in moral psychology also indicates that non-Western adults and Western religious conservatives rely on a wider range of moral principles than amorality of justice ..... In sum,the high,secular Western populations that have been the primary target of study thus far appear unusual in a global context, based on their peculiar reliance on a single foundation for moral reasoning (based on justice and individual rights).
************************************

The paper also describes the commonalities and the nuances of American from the rest of the west"

Rajiv adds: "A great bit of research that illustrates how Western Universalism (in this case in the field of psychology and ethics) has been wrongfully imposed upon other cultures. It is amazing how many "eminent" Indian psychologists have adopted such WU ideas."

 

March 27

video of padre casper raj who is seen in every riot out of TN.
Chandra shares: video of padre casper raj who is seen in every riot out of TN. Embroiled in 2G scam too. Should Lankan players be made hostage to politics? ... 

 

RMF Summary: Week of October 3 - 9, 2011

October 4

BEING DIFFERENT: First public talk at California conference a succes Within a week we hope to upload the video from my talk at the conference last weekend, where I was keynote speaker and gave an overview of the new book, BEING...

October 4

Christians launch political party in Tamilnadu (March 22, 2011) Christians in Tamil Nadu have launched a political party in the southern Indian state, where a legislative assembly poll is scheduled for...  October 4 Indian clergymen whistleblowers Prahalad: A couple of years ago, Sister Jesmi, a nun who retired as professor in a women’s college in... October 4 Ethanographic Intelligence - A possible tool for more divide & conve This link shows how Ethnographic intelligence, currently used as a counter terrorism mechanism can actually be used as an effective "divide and rule" strategy.... October 4 (This post received a lot of responses, involving a long discussion. We will try to summarize this in a separate post). Response to Indian dancer upset at my critique of Christian Bharatnatyam After the recent highly successful book event in Houston, the organizers received an email from a dancer in Houston about an upcoming performance by Leela...  followup thread Re: Response to Indian dancer upset at my critique of Christian Bhar [In response to Mukund Apte]: Let us not oversimplify, please. I don't know about Islam but prayers are chanted in Judaism, apart from other music...     October 4 Houston Seminar on Breaking India: September 11, 2011 - Audience Q & Sanjay: I am looking for a source for the quote from Narayana Murthy that Rajiv-ji mentions in the video. Ref. <quote> According to Narayana Murthy, when he was asked why Indians were so good in IT,rather than explain that we have a whole learning tradition, he said"Thanks for the British for teaching us Maths and Science." Rajiv responds: "I heard this in his talk in 2003 at the Bangalore conference organized jointly organized by Templeton and Infinity Foundation. I felt he was impressing the western guests. The "scientific debt to colonialism" is a common theme amongst many leftists. Gyan Prakash of Princeton has written a book on Indian science during the British period in which the direction of influence is onw-way from Europe to India as if the europeans learned nothing scientific from Indians. (Mr. Murthy has said that he was rooted as a leftist in his younger days but that he later turned into a capitalist. That kind of rejection of the left is for its economic model only, but it does not automatically involve embracing the dharma paradigm.) The key issue is: where lies the root of Indians' competence in science? The west claims to have invented the scientific method - a claim many Indians accept. Thats why I started the very ambitious project of doing 20 volumes on the History of Indian Science and Technology, of which 8 are published already. What is more troubling than a random remark is that Mr. Murthy's foundation has given a multi million dollar grant to bring out English translations of Indian classical works, and the editor in control is Sheldon Pollock. A brilliant Sanskritist no doubt, Pollock's interpretations have tilted towards things like: Aryan invasion theory, dalits being oppressed by sanskrit under brahmin control, etc. In some of the volumes of Indian classics which he did under a different series, such ideologies came through in various ways direct and indirect. For the same amount of money, Mr. Murthy could have re-ignited a whole India based Sanskrit scholarship and translation under the guidance of pandits. Of course, its his hard earned money and we respect his right to spend it howsoever he chooses. I am merely expressing my personal opinion on how I wish our tycoons would back their own civilization in the same manner as American tycoons helped build their civilizational foundations. The Rockefeller, Ford, Carnegie philanthropy did not go to foreign scholars to write American history. " October 5 Ref: FHRS Digest No.2305 - Rajiv Malhotra's Breaking India - posted Ref: FHRS Digest No.2305 Rajiv Malhotra's Breaking India - posted by Achintya Nath Sexena Oct,2. With reference to the remarks of Mr.Achintya Nath Saxena that Dalit and Dravidian movements are home grown, I can only say that the author is simply under informed about the genesis of separatist trends.   It seems Mr.Sexena has   turned a blind eye to the historical facts relating to the colossal role played by the imperial Govt. in creating a wedge and fanning hatred amongst the people of India.  Further, Mr.Sexena remarks regarding Smritis and oppression of lower castes by upper castes for centuries are nothing short of monomania.  For people of any evolved civilization/progressive nation, inheriting such a precious patrimony i.e., the  Vedic texts including original Manusmriti(without interpolations) would have been a matter of great pride.    However, it is quite astonishing to note that  certain sections of our own countrymen,  instead of digging the gems of Vedic truths in their original form by purging the extraneous matter, simply engage themselves in negating and condemning them without going into their depth..." October 5 Critique and salient points of Breaking India - Blog Venkat posts: Here is an worwhile blog which well summarizes breaking india. It is worth reading thru it. ... October 5 Explaining purva paksha to Hindu activists Rajiv Malhotra posts: "One or two Hindu activists in India who have no clue what this book is about have expressed concern simply on the basis that it has been endorsed by a variety of persons who are non-hindu, including christians, scientists who are atheists, etc. Such a statement comes from a closed mind which parrots simplistic statements that are already well known, and hence speaks to those already on their wavelength. They need to understand the traditional method of purva paksha debate with opponents. BEING DIFFERENT opens a new type of interfaith engagement than has existed today. It seek to (a) clarify dharma for those inside dharma, (b) invite open introspection from those who are in the undecided/confused middle, and (c) challenge those with certain metaphysical beliefs opposed to dharma. To achieve this goal, it defines dharma categories in clear, strong terms (i.e. categories that comprise whats "different and distinct" about dharma) and invites debate on our terms. It reverses the gaze upon the west using the dharmic lens, making us the observer of the other. Till now the terms on which debates took place were set by western metaphysical assumptions. Therefore, my project is to hold a series of debates, some live and some online as webinars, with various thinkers from diverse traditions. I already have serious interest from Hindu groups, some Christian theological centers, Buddhists, those in the scientific approach of religion without espousing any faith, etc. I want to expand this set of debates. The email from the critic who has not even seen the book says: "Why has the author sought and received endorsment from the evangelist Francis Clooney who is acitve in TN? Considering the previous book is about the church's agenda to break india I am surprised that Malhotra has sought Clooney's endorsement who has authored comparative religion books on mary worship and devi worship besides insidiously penetrating srivaishnava mathams seeking to be educated on srivaishnava philosophy. If the author wants endoirsements from evangelists then he diesnt need Hindus to read his book." I preciously started an online debate with Clooney challenging his view that Mary and devi worship can be interchanged. It did not go far because of his unavailability. With this book, I want and hope Clooney will organize a public event at Harvard (or somewhere) where my positions on how dharma DIFFERS from western religions can get a fair hearing. Therefore, his endorsement is a good sign and I appreciate his willingness to have such a conversations. Once a door is opened, one may have serious engagements in a tone of mutual respect and fairness. Of course, those Hindus who are insecure will not do this because they simply cannot do it. They have not done enough study and churning internally for a sufficient number of years, have not engaged in hundreds of serious intellectual encounters with opponents to be able to develop solid positions that they could confidently bring to the intellectual forums. They are secure only inside their small and relatively isolated cocoons and are afraid to speak in an open forum as equals. It is easier for them to shout than reason but this has only turned off many of our own youth and pushed them away. I am wanting to stick my neck out and face the "other" in the same spirit as our purva paksha tradition. Purva paksha REQUIRES the active participation of the opponent; otherwise it is a monologue and not a purva paksha. In the same fashion, if a Muslim scholar wants to debate me I am interested. All I ask for as a precondition is a fair forum and moderator. I intend to bring my own video camera to record so that nobody can edit a one-sided outcome. Most interfaith events I have seen have a pathetic Hindu presence. BEING DIFFERENT wants to shift the game by this very approach. It shocks and bothers many Hindus who get a drubbing in metaphysical debates, because their knowledge is limited go Hinduism only with a superficial knowledge of western religions and philosophies. BEING DIFFERENT gives extensive Hindu views on metaphysical issues concerning: Aristotle, Hegel, Christian ideas of original sin, redemption, salvation, Judaism's exclusiveness, misappropriations of Hindu dance/yoga and even Vedanta, the Hebraic/Hellenistic split, the science/religion split in the west, among several others. It is a delight to interact in the spirit of purva paksha on such matters with those in other faiths. I hope to educate more Hindus on how to do this without fear of getting a thrashing. The west has systematically studied Indian civilization for centuries (incl. debating hindu scholars) and have built armies of scholars who can debate any issue from their point of view. It is time we level the playing field by encouraging our folks to reverse the gaze - which is what BEING DIFFERENT does." October 6 Nick Sutton - oxford center for Hindu studies Please view the link below for a perfect example of a eurocentric academic who is holding forth on Hindus. He plays the game of giving all negative information... October 6 Ayudha Puja & Vidyarambham Inculturation Hindu or Christian, for Kerala Kids It's Vidyarambham http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=118169 Kasargod: Ayudha Puja Held at Our Lady of... October 6 Punjab overwhelmed by Christian missionaries - Jesus as Satguru, Chu ** I wonder what explanation the weak Hndus who glorify Christian yoga, bharatnatyam, karnatik music et al will now use for Christian satsang and Jesus as... October 7 A Shankaracharya on Islam Dear All,  Please see this video as an example of all that Malhotraji has been warning about October 8 Response to Vishal Mangalwadi's attack on "Breaking India" its princ Rajiv Malhotra [and Aravindan Neelakandan] share: In his review of the book `Breaking India', [see 1] Vishal Mangalwadi makes numerous attacks on book and on my personally. Being a prominent world class jet set evangelist serving the foreign nexuses, he gets extensive coverage in the book and it is not surprising that he would hit back through such a rant. My co-author and I are issuing the following rejoinder to Mangalwadi's review: Response to Vishal Mangalwadi's attack on 'Breaking India' and its principle author Mangalwadi eulogizes `Mosaic Ethnology' thus: "Mosaic Ethnology) assumes that our human race originated from one pair of parents. Initially everyone spoke the same language. Linguistic and racial divisions arose after Noah. The authors are right in saying that from the 17th to the early 20th century it was not secular rationalism but the Bible that inspired and directed Europe's intellectual vitality, including Indological studies. Hinduism and Islam had been in India for centuries but neither of those faiths stimulated their followers to study India, its languages, history, people, or natural resources as the Bible inspired Europeans." Mangalwadi perhaps did not read the book properly for he misses the point entirely. From the 17th to 20th century it was not the Biblical view alone that shaped European mindset but also colonial expansion, renaissance driven enlightenment which actually has its roots in the rediscovery of the pre-Christian pagan philosophical and scientific legacy and identity crisis driven by all these factors – which was forging the European worldview. What Mangalwadi boasts as `Europe's intellectual vitality' was actually responsible for the justification of the most cruel and most commercialized slavery establishment in the history of humanity namely trans-Atlantic slave trade.  It was the Hamitic Myth of the Bible that justified slave trade and all its cruelty. For example the nineteenth century American best seller `Slavery as its Relates to the Negro or the African Race' (1843)  elaborated on the Biblical scene of Noah cursing Ham's progeny into slavery and cursed the Blacks should remain as `both in times of peace and war a despised, degraded and oppressed race.'  As late as 1895 Biblical mythology was trumped up in defense of slavery as in the writings of Troup Taylor, a devout Christian who in a very popular track explained that the entire `Negro' race `was adapted to a destiny suited only to an inferior race.' The countless evidences can be multiplied and one can read some of them in a very detailed manner in the book (for example pp. 40-41). Mangalwadi exhibits his arrogant ignorance when he states that Hinduism and Islam never stimulated their followers to study India, its languages, history, people, or natural resources as the Bible inspired Europeans. In reality it was the Hindu mathematics which was transmitted to Europe by Islamic scholars which started the very European renaissance. And modern linguistics including computational linguistics owes its origin and development to Panini and Kerala mathematicians as well as logicians. The only additional input that Europeans added was the racial categorization which visited upon humanity some of its worst scourges in history in the form of Nazi holocaust and Rwandan genocide. And this distinctly European contribution, which Mangalwadi claims as having Biblical roots, is neither scientific nor very flattering to Christianity as a religion. Again Mangalwadi errs when he states that it was Bible through European colonialism that made India a nation-state in the modern sense. In fact the idea of Indian nation state defies the European idea of nation-state which was based on rigid monocultural identity. As B.R.Ambedkar the chief architect of Indian constitution has pointed out in an elaborate discussion that the integrity of India is based more on its spiritual culture rather than the colonial infrastructural frameworks that the British created for their own interest. From the beginning Indian unity has been based on its respect and acceptance of pluralism – something that the modern West including US is trying hard to come to terms with and which is resisted by fundamentalists like Pat Robertson and his ideological clone Mangalwadi. Mangalwadi claims that the "missionaries embraced, loved, and served the racially different "lower" castes and Dravidians." But documented evidence suggests that missionaries only saw the impoverished social conditions of the `lower' castes and the fabricated Dravidian race identity as opportunities for conversion rather than showing on them genuine love and respect for their culture. For example the book documents how Caldwell considered Dravidians as inherently endowed with `the density of their ignorance' which he laments is the `chief obstacle to their evangelization'. So much for love and respect that missionaries have for the fellow human being! He states that "The oppressed do hate their oppressors, but that privilege is not available to Christians..." How does he explain the centuries of Christian oppression - from the times of Roman imperialism, to the genocides of Native Americans, the slavery of Africans, and colonization of Asians? Even today, American civic society is highly divided along race lines. The churches are almost entirely segregated - Blacks, Hispanics, Koreans, Indians and Whites each have own separate churches. Before wagging the finger at others and exporting "solutions", US based evangelists like Mangalwadi should work on solving Christianity's internal problems at home..." Rajiv follows up: "Mangalwadi champions the missionaries are helping the labor class in India. Below is a counter example of the devastation they cause, this example sent to me by someone named Bharat Nair. It shows their role in plagiarizing India's manufacturing advantages in order to help the industrial revolution in Europe: For example, see Cotton: The Biography of a Revolutionary Fiber By Stephen Yafa p.30)  "As for the Indian methods of  "animalizing" cotton [i.e. giving cotton the texture similar to animal skins], they remained mysterious to most European printers until much later than might be expected - for seventy years after the arrival of chintz. Ironically, it was a man of the cloth, Jesuit Father Coeurdoux, who betrayed these fiercely guarded secrets. In 1742 the French cleric took advantage of his missionary posting on the Coromandel coast to gain the trust of Indian master dyers whom he had converted to Catholicism. They confided their secret pricess to him with an understanding that he would never reveal it. Coeurdoux immediately gave a detailed description in a step-by-step letter published in France. In a blink, three thousand years of clandestine artisan practice became public knowledge."     This is the same priest described in Ananda Ranga Pillai's description of the destruction of Vedapuri Iswaran temple in Pondicherry" October 8 "Ecstasy, possession, and spiritual realization: Yoga of Dance" Udaya shares: "....Christ repackaged for Hindus? Christ who is at heart only a Hindu? Hindu Christ for the whole world? Since its inception in 1988, Shobana Jeyasingh Dance Company has worked throughout the United Kingdom and internationally, producing and touring dance works by its artistic director and choreographer, Shobana Jeyasingh. Each year, the company engages with up to 30,000 people through performances and a range of education projects. Shobana Jeyasingh is acclaimed for her pioneering work in choreography. She deploys her South Asian roots to create work that is uniquely British. The dance itself is ground-breaking and contemporary in style but draws on many traditional forms and influences such as Ballet or Bharata Natyam, a centuries-old Asian classical dance form. This produces a language of movement with which people from all cultures can identify..." October 9 'BORNEO TRIBE PRACTICES ITS OWN KIND OF HINDUISM' - NYT Subject: "BORNEO TRIBE PRACTICES ITS OWN KIND OF HINDUISM" - NYT Date: Monday, September 26, 2011, 7:37 AM ...

RMF Summary: Week of September 26 - October 2, 2011

September 26

Communal violence and Target Bill. Sri. Ram Jethmalani on the divisive Communal violence and Target Bill. http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/op-ed/a-divisive-communal-bill/317543.html Hari Om K P...

September 26

Whats cooking in Tamil Nadu Aravindan Neelakandan posts: A lot of things are happening in Tamil Nadu. Its like being in the eye of a storm and seeing every one take it as a breeze even as they are getting destroyed by it. 1. Church could organize coastal people; launch an agitation and stop a nuclear power project in South Tamil Nadu. It is not the pros and cons of Nuclear power that I am talking about but the clout of the Church in organizing people's protest and making government bow down in such a vital matter. 2. Police firing on an agitating Dalit crowd which killed six Dalits. My Dalit friend said that the police behaved in a high-handed manner and that the entire event was video-graphed by Madurai Theological Seminary (mentioned in 'Breaking India') The Dalits were agitating for the release of their arrested leader. His name? John Pandiyan. Like the proverbial frog in the cauldron enjoying the warming water we are discussing abstract things regarding Varna and Jati and Kula. But the ground reality is a veritable exploding volcano. We have little time left - if left at all. May we not end up as museum pieces or worse refugees in World Vision camps."

A. Neelakandan responds to a followup:
"//without discussing abstract things like true perspective of Varna, Jati and Kula, it is not possible to eradicate caste distinctions. Practical follows theory//

I fully agree with your statement. In fact Arya Samaj has been at the forefront of fighting for harmonizing / eliminating these divisive faultlines. In fact they were the first to use the word 'Dalit' with the sense of emancipating and empowering the suppressed sections of the society in an environment highly
negative. Researching the histories of most of the neglected Dalit leaders in Tamil Nadu I was surprised to find that at least two of them were directly influenced by Arya Samaj. Lessons need to be learned how this vibrant movement was dissipated after independence.

Atrocities on Dalits are a fact. And the surprising truth is many of those who really fight for Dalit empowerment are deeply Hindu minded. But invariably those who come out in media light as Dalit saviors are missionary projected-manipulated leaders. But no worthwhile effort has been made by Hindu organizations to talk with these ground level Hindu Dalit leaders - share their experiences and challenges; understand their perspectives and evolve a bottoms-up Indic vision social justice rooted in Vedanta. A Vedantic vision for
the liberation of Dalits as well as a Vedantic mission for the validation of broken native cultures all over the globe (broken by Abrahamic theological imperialism) is the need of the hour. The crucial importance of 'Being Different' comes here as a major theoretical tool for this task"

ShreeVinekar adds:
".. I was stunned to hear a program by an Oklahoma based musicologist on NPR. The program is ostensibly about music but definitely by open admission a "liberation" movement for the Dalits in Tamil Nadu who are depicted as not being allowed to play their music (drums) for the religious ceremonies of the "upper caste" and thus depriving them of income. The program "This is Music" is touting a documentary film about the atrocities the Dalits in India are facing in Tamil Nadu. The spokesperson boldly announces that the word or the epithet "dalit" was invented and first used by no one other than "Babasaheb Ambedkar." This program is heard by millions of Americans who are urged to  donate for this cause of political activism on behalf of the Dalits in Tamilnadu. No Indian who is social justice promoter has started asking for donations to liberate the Native Americans from their reservations or liberate the African Americans from their ghettos in America..."


September 26

Dharma as Protective Umbrella validating theo-diversity Aravindan Neelakandan posts: " Seeing dharma as an umbrella against theo-imperialism tribes in Borneo actually teach us a valuable lesson: the real significant role Dharma can play in protecting theo-diversity September 26 Dalit = Black trade fair in Mumbai... Karigar posts:  " See last line of below news item. The tacit equation of Dalit =  Black being reinforced... Ratan Tata to attend first dalit trade fair NEW DELHI: In a first, the three-day trade fair to be organized by dalit entrepreneurs and businessmen in December will be attended by Ratan Tata. "We had sent an invitation to Ratan Tata and he has confirmed that he will attend our conclave and exhibition," said Milind Kamble, chairman of Dalit India Chamber of Commerce and Industry. The event, beginning December 16, will be held at Bandra Kurla Complex in Mumbai. DICCI, whose mission statement calls for "fighting caste with capital", will showcase about half-a-dozen dalits who started as small entrepreneurs but now are running companies with multinational operations. ... The event will host more than 200 dalit companies involved in hardcore manufacturing, construction, trading, health, hospitality and the knowledge industry. "Our friends in the US are also trying to get Robert Johnson, the first black billionaire, to visit the fair as the guest of honour," Kamble said. " September 27 Church promises 10,000 rs. to Catholic couples in Kerala on birth of Check: St Vincent De Paul Forane Church in Kalpetta has promised 10000/- to Catholic couples on the birth of their fifth child. This novel initiative by the... September 28 Houston Seminar on "Breaking India" - Video Uploaded http://www.breakingindia.com/houston-video-1/ The Houston program a couple of weeks ago was a great success....

RMF Summary: Week of April 11 - 17, 2011

April 11

Fw: Amartya Sen : The Dangerous Delusion Re: Warren Buffet and Bill Gates interference with our educational system, there is the interference of people like Amartya Sen, who will be heading Nalanda,... April 12 USHA Reception for Rajiv Malhotraji - Author of Breaking India (image linked from vivekyothi blogspot) April 16 US Money funds foreign NGO's Lessons for the Indians April 16 When a Minority is not a minority Aravindan Neelakandan: This is one of the vital provocations of the book. Here we have an example of how Indian communities become pawns in the hands of power structures remote-controlled by transnational entities like Catholic church. As expected the news provider here does not explore the ground level dynamics. Living in the eye of the storm, so as to say, there are further complicated patterns. There is a high level of dissent among Catholic fishermen community who increasingly feel that they are being kept captive by the Catholic Church. ... The three south Indian districts of Tamil Nadu (two of which are coastal and hence of strategic importance) are reaping sound political power harvests for the Church/churches thanks to the seeds sown and field work done for two hundred years. April 17 Another 'Breaking India' scenario becoming a reality: and its scary Aravindan Neelakandan: The last chapter of the book explores strange local nexuses between foreign controlled forces in India even when those who control these forces may be fighting bitter forces at global level. The book gives many examples. For example, right wing American evangelical organizations supporting Maoist insurgencies, Jihadhi forces getting support from Church backed NGOs etc. An US based evangelist (Vishal Mangalwadhi) lauds Maoists for their 'Jihad against Animism and Hinduism'. (p.383) National Council of Churches of Nepal (NCCN) became a key ally of Maoists in helping them form government (p.388)The book also discusses Maoist-ULFA-ISI nexus (p.389-90) ... April 17 Fw: request Vijaya Rajiva: url for my article ' Breaking India: Some Reflections' published in Haindava Keralam.      April 17 My salute to Shri Rajiv Malhotra and Shri Aravindan Neelakandan Respected Members of the Group, Jai Hind & Namashkar. To be honest, I have NOT fully gone through the Magnum Opus by Shri Rajiv Malhotra and Shri Aravindan...